2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission DT Track Bar could be Dangerous

[EBottema]

Hey Guys-



I have installed two of these so far on different CTD's. My own and a customers. I do sell DT products but am thinking of stopping that right now because of what I have found. The mounting bracket is under engineered. When turning, the bracket moved side to side where the crush sleeves are suppose to be installed. The whole DT track bar is a great idea, but needs improvement. After my concerns came from myself and my customer, I called the owner of DT pro fab. He lied to me on the phone and said those crushsleeves are crushsleeves which they are not. He also blamed the truck and not his product. He said it was my problem to figure out and he has only had a few complaints like that from serious off roaders. Typical bad customer service since now the parts been sold and he wants nothing to do with the customer after that. Because of the bad customer service, I have decided to make a fix and tell everyone of this problem on my own. I have made a fix to the crushsleeve end of the bracket this weekend and will be developing a new side support for it. The bracket will still be bolt on however it will not be cheesy and under engineered like the DT version. I will gauge the interested to this reply on if I will go ahead and sell them. Anyways, to check your bracket, look under the truck and have someone turn back and forth quickly about 3/4 turn left to right then right to left and so on. Watch the bracket for flex.



-Erik

 

[Mackie007]

I installed mine a couple of years ago, at the time I thought it was a bit odd having to drill those huge holes in the crossmember, actually it still bugs me. If I could do it over again I would go with the new style Trackbar with the DSS mounting system.



That being said I have not had any issues with the trackbar that I'm aware of. I will however be checking for the bracket flexing like you are describing as I have been trying to isolate the cause of a strange shimmy when I back up while turning at a sharp angle.



Best Regards,

Mac

 

[EBottema]

I installed mine a couple of years ago, at the time I thought it was a bit odd having to drill those huge holes in the crossmember, actuarially still bugs me.

When I installed the 2 track bars I only drilled one hole of the crossmember since drilling the second one would leave the crossmember to weak in my opinion. With the mod the the crossmember sleeves I have made, all the flex is completly gone. Now it flexes on the other side, that is the next step.



Erik



ps. it is a great design but it needs improvement in that area-the bracket

 

[snowracer69]

When I installed the 2 track bars I only drilled one hole of the crossmember since drilling the second one would leave the crossmember to weak in my opinion.

Um, I'm having trouble with this part right here. You didn't install them as directed by the manufacturer, and now you're saying that it doesn't work as good as it should? Confused would be an understatement...



I have one on my '01 and my friend has one on his '97. I have had no problems with mine, but after ~40k I think it's needing a rebuild. I stopped by DT last Tuesday and chatted with Dave a bit and picked up the rebuild stuff. Since it's been over 2 years since I put mine on, and I haven't really even looked at it since then, I'll have to crawl back under and figure out what you are trying to say is happening.



Also, what EXACTLY is the purpose of the crossmember that is being drilled? Is it helping to support the weight of the engine (bending) or is it there to keep the frames seperated and straight?



I'd also like to see what your fix is in pictures, if you don't mind... or at least a good detailed explanation of what you did.

 

[EBottema]

See the problem with drilling the second hole in the crossmember is that the cross member is only about an inch or so thick in the spot. When you drill the crossmember out there would only be about and 1/8 inch of material left on the bottom of the hole since the hole should have been placed higher in the bracket.

According to DT, yes you need to put 2 holes, but I am not going to listen to someone tell me to ruin my crossmember in my truck. The DT track bar is a great design but the bracket was under engineered in my opinion. Dave said that the problem was that i needed a different crushsleeve. However, those sleeves he gives in the package are not crushsleeves. It was kind of funny, he obviously doesn't know what he is talking about in that respect. Check for the movement on your truck. When I get part 2 of the bracket complete, I will let everyone know and be selling a new bracket depending on how many people I see with the same problem



Erik

 

[snowracer69]

You didn't answer any of my questions.



You're complaining about a product that you didn't install to the manufacturers specs.



What is the purpose of the crossmember? (I am asking this question cause I don't know... it will make a HUGE difference whether it's supporting weight or keeping the frames apart).



What is your fix for the problem?



Rather than bash Dave, why don't you answer my questions? Dave is a whole lot like Bill K... not much of a people person but EXTREMELY knowledgeable about what he does.

 

[Swamp Donkey]

Is it a complete bracket with 2 holes in the same location???

 

[EBottema]

You didn't answer any of my questions.



You're complaining about a product that you didn't install to the manufacturers specs.



What is the purpose of the crossmember? (I am asking this question cause I don't know... it will make a HUGE difference whether it's supporting weight or keeping the frames apart).



What is your fix for the problem?



Rather than bash Dave, why don't you answer my questions? Dave is a whole lot like Bill K... not much of a people person but EXTREMELY knowledgeable about what he does.

Even if it was installed with the 2 crushsleeves there would still be the same problem. The problem is with the sleeves not fitting the frame holes tight enough and the I. D. on the sleeve being loose with the bolt. The purpose of the crossmember is the strengthen the frame and tie them together like you said. It is also a engine and track bar support since the stock trackbar mounts under it to the driver side. It is a critical area. Welding the bracket would also make this problem go away but it would cause the frame/crossmember to be heated up which could weaken it. That would also take away the bolt on aspect of it.



The fix is new tigher sleeves and a side bracket support that goes up on the frame. The bracket would go in the same spot Depending on the interest we might be making a totally new bracket or just sleeves or both. I'm gauging interest. I don't bash anyone unless I have a good reason. Dave im sure is a nice guy but if you are not good with people then don't have a business. Mike at DT is nice and helpful. One of my orders got messed up and delayed a job since they sent the 1 of 4 wrong bushings and Dave did not care. The customer had to wait for the extra stuff and Dave would not take any money off for their problem like most businesses would.



Hope your questions got answered this time, I'm sure I would have answered your questions in a better fashion if you would not be so confrontational.

 

[starring]

I have recently purchased a DT track bar, and after hearing this I am going to wait to install it. Let me know as soon as there is a better mounting bracket. I have had enough problems, and don't need any more. :--)

 

[BPINE]

I have hade my DT trackbar for about 80k, no problems at all !!! No flexing of the bracket and no steering problems. I installed it exactly like the instruction said to do. I am not trying to discredit someones opinion I am just telling my experience.

 

[NVR FNSH]

Eric,

What are your qualifications to determine that the bracket is under engineered? I do not have a DT track bar and I haven't looked at one of their but if you're going to come out swinging like you did you had better be prepared to state your qualifications and be prepared to get grilled.



Brian

 

[snowracer69]

Even if it was installed with the 2 crushsleeves there would still be the same problem. .

I disagree, mainly cause I've put two on as directed by the manufacturer and have seen no problems with them.

The purpose of the crossmember is the strengthen the frame and tie them together like you said. It is also a engine and track bar support since the stock trackbar mounts under it to the driver side. It is a critical area. Welding the bracket would also make this problem go away but it would cause the frame/crossmember to be heated up which could weaken it. That would also take away the bolt on aspect of it.

Yes, you're weakening the crossmember by drilling two sizeable holes in it, HOWEVER, I do not think the crossmember is bearing that much of a load at that point (it is the smallest point on the member from the factory, so they're not too concerned about it carrying much of the load), especially in the forward/rearward bending directions, therefore you're not taking much away from it. If the member is in fact load bearing for the engine (helps support it) you are not taking away hardly any strength at all... all the bending moment is supported by the bottom flange of the member. Also, you are adding more material to the back side of the crossmember with the bracket. Drilling holes leads to a stress concentration area, yes, but I don't think it's doing damage. Now, has Dave done FEA on this aspect? I doubt it... it's nearly impossible to figure out what loading the member is supporting in order to run something like that to determine if it's causing damage in the long run to the member. But, with ~40k on my bar, I haven't seen any signs of a problem. It was however installed as directed :-laf

but if you are not good with people then don't have a business.

Strictly your opinion. Many successful people would not be in business if the world worked that way. Just cause he can't talk with you, or doesn't care to, doesn't mean he doesn't know how to run a business. I also do not agree with the way he handled things, but, now here's the kicker, WE ARE ONLY GETTING YOUR SIDE OF THE STORY! We have NO IDEA of what you said, how you came across, or what has happened between you two in the past. The other side almost always sounds different... not bashing, just saying.

Hope your questions got answered this time, I'm sure I would have answered your questions in a better fashion if you would not be so confrontational.

Yes, they did... thanks. I'm being confrontational because of the wording of your title and your first post. You gave very little information other than to say, in not so many words "the DT bar is good, but could be a lot better, but I didn't install it like was directed, and Dave's a real dick on the phone, and now I've made a change to the bracket and am looking to sell it. " As I said, I've installed just as many of these as you have, and put them in as directed, and have had no problems.

 

[diesel DOG]

I doubt he will be shipping you anymore

 

[EBottema]

I am sure I have going to hear about the problem with the bracket flex more from people with lifted trucks with larger tires. Both track bars installed have been for the 3-6 inch lifted trucks. I pointed out that a flexing bracket could be dangerous since it causes steering wander. My steering is better now with the tigher sleeve installed. Our qualifications include ASE certified drivetrain and steering tech and welding experiance. I'm posting this to HELP others and relay a problem, hey it might only be with a few trucks, thats fine. But this bashing of me has really got to go. I'm not bashing any of you. I'm bashing a company that would not help me with a problem I was having with their products. They still do make a great track bar and some even better control arms. Anyone else please chime in and let me know if you are having the bracket flexing.

 

[snowracer69]

I But this bashing of me has really got to go. I'm not bashing any of you. I'm bashing a company that would not help me with a problem I was having with their products. .

As I said, we only have your side of the story... hence at least my hesitation to jump on your side of the wagon.



I guess I'll step away from this and let you do your thing... I just don't like coming out and saying "this product is possibly dangerous" and then in the small print saying "but I didn't install it as directed because I felt it would cause more problems. "... maybe that's the problem in the first place

 

[EBottema]

See Snowracer, If you look 1 2 or ten bolts and it would still could have the same problem. The problem is not in how many bolts there are but the sleeve they send doesnt fit tight in the frame hole drilled by customer and the bolt doesnt fit tight on the I. D. of sleeve. A tighter fitting sleeve left me with no movement at all on the bracket like i had before. It basically allows up and down movement when first turning because the slope. Similar to a worn our rack and pinion bushing. I didn't expect you to jump on the bandwagon, just wanted some feedback on the problem.

 

[JGheen]

I have the DT bar and bracket and love it, hence, after I welded it. From day one, it had moved and flexed on me no matter how tight I got the bolts. At first I thought it wouldn't move at all from all the bolting locations, but since I welded it, it doesn't move at all.

I'm not going to say it is a bad design or it should have been designed this way or that, but I am happy with the product and would definately recommend it to others, as I have not seen anything better out there for mildly lifted trucks or for very large lifted trucks.

I only drilled one hole into my crossmember and bolted everything else up as directed, but after I saw how much it moved while turning, I welded the heck out of it.

I like it over other brackets as it relocates the bar forward a little to prevent it from hitting the differential cover on hard bounces as well as it's structure. Although, it doesn't say to weld it, I did it anyway and it hasn't given me any problems since the day I installed it.



I can say from what I have seen over on Pavementsucks.com, there are A LOT of guys installing these brackets as directed by the manufacturer and they still get unwanted movement from the bracket. Bolting the bracket is not enough, it's just up to you whether or not you want to make it a permanent piece of the truck or not.



Hopefully these pics will give you an idea of welding up the bracket. As you can see in the first pic from the other thread, I reienforced the bracket on the outside of the frame to help with the side to side support. I must say it is much more stout than just bolting it.



This thread shows a pic of my welded DT bracket



Here is another pic -

 

[Alphacowboy]

any bolt on bracket, IMO, is junk and not safe. the DT design is ok, but ONLY if you weld it. I know of many failers of the DT setup, and many have tossed it all together or welded it due to it coming loose.



Again, I do not work for Don, and get paid nothing to tell ya'll about his products, but I think its fair to show an alternative to the main stream products that are available IE skyjacker and DT when it comes to the track bar on the Dodge trucks. I unfortunately due to finacial reasons have not purchased Dons bar, but all I hear from the people with them installed is complete satisfaction and finally a quality replacement for the OEM junk, and a better design and product than the other replacements out there.



http://thurenfabrication.com/trackbar.html



lifted truck bar...

#ad




standard height truck... .

#ad

 

[BigBadDodge]

I put the DT bar in 4 years ago and welded the bracket during the install no problems, I also have 4. 5" lift and 36" tires. Heck I haven't even done rebuild either.



BBD

 

[kentdiesel]

EBottema,

Thanks for posting your experience with the DT Trackbar Bracket. After you finish please post some pictures of the changes you made. Sorry about the "flak" you took by just trying to inform others of your experience.



Kent