It is all good Matt. Most of the guys are good guys over there. I just guess there was alot more behind the scenes engine work that I had heard of. I only browse the competition section on the DP though. I enjoy the techinical discussions over there. Some of those guys have way too much free time. I was under the impression that Zedik and Big D were the only guys with much engine work. It seems like there were a few more than I had heard of. Your right Miller and Painter have more than just firerings and studs. I think they have injectors and their timing advanced a little bit. That is all that I know of :-laf . I wish my truck ran like Coppess and Amos's. I have set out this winter to do some turbocharger shoppin. The 66mm just isn't enough for the street class.