Eco Diesel VS. Cummins. Why Eco Diesel?

[DonFitzwater]

Sure, just ask the first DMAX owners and why did they keep beefing up the heads?

Ancient history RVTRKN. Only the first year or two had issues with heads.

 

[avvblanc01]

have you tried selling your truck through a different method than trade in to the dealer?

Try taking it to carmax or something similar, I have a feeling you'd get a lot more than the stealership is offering.
if not, I guess you'll have to just suffer it out in that gorgeous dually haha

 

[RVTRKN]

The one thing that worries me the most about aluminum heads, is when overheating occurs, the different rate of expansion will warp them. Call me old school I guess, but I don't like aluminum heads on iron. I realize it's the wave of the future, but I'll avoid them as long as possible. As far as the first couple of years that Isuzu tweaked the design, what about cummins will they have the same learning curve and is why I will take a wait and see attitude.

 

[DonFitzwater]

The one thing that worries me the most about aluminum heads, is when overheating occurs, the different rate of expansion will warp them. Call me old school I guess, but I don't like aluminum heads on iron. I realize it's the wave of the future, but I'll avoid them as long as possible. As far as the first couple of years that Isuzu tweaked the design, what about cummins will they have the same learning curve and is why I will take a wait and see attitude.

Just to play Devils advocate, remember the first generation 5.9's with cast iron heads and large injector tips? They all cracked from the injector bore right through to the valve seats. I know you don't have any love for aluminum heads but they have come a long way since they were put into mass production. (I hope I don't have to eat my words!)

 

[RVTRKN]

Just to play Devils advocate, remember the first generation 5.9's with cast iron heads and large injector tips?

It's amazing how big corporations can screw the pooch, when it comes to new designs, Cummins with the Variable Vane Turbo comes to recent mind. The 07.5 through 08 MY saw many turbo cleanings and led to a slightly different Turbo due to shooting up the mechanisms, that led to a new turbo with a cleaning port, and modifications to the early VVT. Unfortunately I own one of those turbos, lucky for me the C&C exhaust brake stays on unless I turn it off unlike the regular truck version the forces you to turn it on any time you shut the engine off, and helps to keep it clean moving the vanes all the time.

 

[RustyJC]

The one thing that worries me the most about aluminum heads, is when overheating occurs, the different rate of expansion will warp them.

And overheating will also warp cast iron heads. Cummins B-series 5.9/6.7 heads certainly are a prime example of this. A significant number require a skim cut when removed and checked after, let's say, a head gasket failure, right?

Rusty

 

[RVTRKN]

Yes your correct, but anytime you do a head gasket, you should at least check the flatness of head and block. To warp a cast iron head you had to have damn near lost your engine when comparing it to warping of aluminum heads, wouldn't you agree?

 

[EcoDiesel]

The Ram EcoDiesel with air suspension and 3.92 gearing is an awesome towing machine but with relatively low payload capacity. A 700 lb tongue weight and passengers will probably exceed the conservative payload rating. However, it is far more comfortable and economical than a HD.

Your best result for selling the 3500 will be on the open market. New price for the 1500 will vary widely by dealer but with research and good timing you may get at least a percent below invoice plus holdback and incentives, especially with a sold order. The net is likely to be close to an even trade.

 

[wiley75]

RVTRKN -
Do you own an Ecodiesel? I didn't see one in your signature.

 

[hammersley]

If you are talking about a 4x4, then there is no option IMO, the 2500 with a solid front axle, which means a Cummins.

 

[RVTRKN]

RVTRKN -
Do you own an Ecodiesel? I didn't see one in your signature.

No! If I was in the market for a 1/2 ton diesel, I would consider the
New Nissan with the Cummins before I bought a Fiat diesel. I'm not putting down their product, just don't want to spend that kind of money on an inferior engine, when a Cummins with an Aisin trans will be available.

 

[DonFitzwater]

What happened to Wiley75's snippy post???

 

[wiley75]

What happened to Wiley75's snippy post???

Oops. Moderator didn't like that apparently. I will rephrase and try again

 

[wiley75]

No! If I was in the market for a 1/2 ton diesel, I would consider the
New Nissan with the Cummins before I bought a Fiat diesel. I'm not putting down their product, just don't want to spend that kind of money on an inferior engine, when a Cummins with an Aisin trans will be available.

RVTRKN. I guess I'm confused why you feel inclined to come on the Ecodiesel forum and make assertions that it is an "inferior engine" when you don't have any first hand experience with it. Fiat and VM definitely know how to build diesel engines. They've been doing it successfully for years and years. And aluminum heads and timing chains are not a concern on light duty automotive engines such as the ones used in diesel powered pick-up trucks and cars. I know you feel that aluminum's expansion rate is different than CGI, and that will lead to head gasket failure. But don't you think the engine's design engineers know about that and designed accordingly? Things may not be as cut and dry as you think on that topic. For example, I hear of way less head gasket failures on Duramax engines than I do on Cummins 6.7s (And yes, I own, and love, my 6.7 Cummins).

My personal experience with the Ecodiesel is that it is a quiet engine, has a broad torque curve and happily pulls hard down to 1800rpm or so, will stretch its legs out at high RPMs if you want it to (not that you need it), is good on fuel, good on urea, and easy to maintain. I do wish it didn't require the odd ball 5W30 "special" oil. But as more of them are sold more parts stores will stock it.

Here are a couple of links about the 3.0 VM Motori. You've probably already seen these. Hopefully the Cummins 5.0 V8 will prove to be a great engine as well. Time will tell.

http://www.dieselpowermag.com/tech/1208dp_banks_vm_motori_630t_v6_diesel_engine/

http://wardsauto.com/blog/ward-s-10-best-engines-spec-sheet-ram-30l-diesel

 

[DonFitzwater]

There. that's better..

 

[RVTRKN]

TIME WILL TELL is the theme for today.

So what your saying is that Fiat diesel's are better than Cummins, if you think Fiat is not an inferior engine. Also you should then be OK with Fiat ending the Cummins contract and going with their in-house diesel. But time will tell.

First off, those fiat diesels you want to compare with, are medium duty trucks that cant even get out of thier own way, but they are a cheap option for small business, and seem to always get in front of me on a two lane country road where I cant pass them. Sort of like the old VW bus, last one up the hill, first one to go over the top of the hill. I'm sorry if you are insulted that I think Fiat diesel's are inferior to Cummins but thats my opinion. We wouldn't be having this discussion if Obama didn't give away Chrysler and screw the investors over the Union contracts. Cummins would be in a 1500 Dodge, and would kill the market. But now Fiat, in their greed, went with an in-house diesel and opened up the market to the competitors. So now Nissan has a very good engine and transmission with a strong chassis. Toyota is not going to sit on the sidelines and so now there is another competitor, even though they are behind the competition now. If Fiat would have gone with the Cummins engine, both Toyota and Nissan would still be looking for an engine to compete. But time will tell.

I did look into getting an Eco-Diesel for my new service truck, but they can't support the service bed when equiped, so I went with the 2500 and to my surprize, my company bought it for me. Had the Titan been available with the Cummins, it just might have been able, the vans available have a very stout chassis, and that is another plus for Nissan. But time will tell.

The Aluminum Heads on the Isuzu (Duramax) have been updated several times due to failure under stock power levels. That and the Glowplugs that took out engines. Unfortunatly Aluminum heads are here to stay, but I would trust Cummins to get it right. But time will tell.

 

[wiley75]

TIME WILL TELL is the theme for today.

So what your saying is that Fiat diesel's are better than Cummins, if you think Fiat is not an inferior engine. Also you should then be OK with Fiat ending the Cummins contract and going with their in-house diesel. But time will tell.

First off, those fiat diesels you want to compare with, are medium duty trucks that cant even get out of thier own way, but they are a cheap option for small business, and seem to always get in front of me on a two lane country road where I cant pass them. Sort of like the old VW bus, last one up the hill, first one to go over the top of the hill. I'm sorry if you are insulted that I think Fiat diesel's are inferior to Cummins but thats my opinion. We wouldn't be having this discussion if Obama didn't give away Chrysler and screw the investors over the Union contracts. Cummins would be in a 1500 Dodge, and would kill the market. But now Fiat, in their greed, went with an in-house diesel and opened up the market to the competitors. So now Nissan has a very good engine and transmission with a strong chassis. Toyota is not going to sit on the sidelines and so now there is another competitor, even though they are behind the competition now. If Fiat would have gone with the Cummins engine, both Toyota and Nissan would still be looking for an engine to compete. But time will tell.

I did look into getting an Eco-Diesel for my new service truck, but they can't support the service bed when equiped, so I went with the 2500 and to my surprize, my company bought it for me. Had the Titan been available with the Cummins, it just might have been able, the vans available have a very stout chassis, and that is another plus for Nissan. But time will tell.

The Aluminum Heads on the Isuzu (Duramax) have been updated several times due to failure under stock power levels. That and the Glowplugs that took out engines. Unfortunatly Aluminum heads are here to stay, but I would trust Cummins to get it right. But time will tell.

That settles it then. The Ecodiesel is totally worthless and is indeed "inferior" as you have stated. Thank you for enlightening us Ecodiesel owners of these facts. I'm gonna put mine up for sale tomorrow before the heads blow off of it or the glow plugs fail.

 

[DonFitzwater]

That settles it then. The Ecodiesel is totally worthless and is indeed "inferior" as you have stated. Thank you for enlightening us Ecodiesel owners of these facts. I'm gonna put mine up for sale tomorrow before the heads blow off of it or the glow plugs fail.

Grow some thicker skin..........if you are happy with your truck, enjoy it!

 

[RVTRKN]

I dont know why your taking it so personal wiley75. I wish you and anybody else who owns an Eco-diesel the best, I'm only expressing my opinion, like I said, I did concider one, but the 1500 its in, can't do what I needed. Cummins is a major engine manufacture that has my respect and I trust their judgment, and if they designed their new engine with Aluminum heads/Glow plugs/timing chains, then I'm sure they took into account the needed precautions. You have to admit that the new 5.0 V8 Cummins with the new 8 speed transmission would have been a dream with the Ram.

As far as the new Cummins V8 concerns for durabilty and reliablity? Well in 2007 I had to chose between a Mercedes Benz Manual transmission or a Japanese built Automatic transmission, and I chose the G56 because the manufacture had the better reputation. I sure got it wrong and I can produce the $5K in receipts for repairs and improvements to prove it. I guess time will tell.

Again, I want too wish you and everyone else the best of luck with the Eco-diesel, I know Fiat can produce depenable diesel's.

 

[p-Bar]

My son just bought one , nice truck engine purrs. My concern would be the smog stuff to meet EPA and whatever standards as the euros believe in fuel economy first smog last . So what is the experience the euros have in smog devices ? They are experts in diesel engines. we know the problems GM and Dodge had with 07.5 changeover to dpf . One poster bringing up the new Cummins in the Titan we need to look at the source remember it's not a Navistar that is changed every couple years. I'm sure Cummins did their homework before releasing that engine . Of course time will tell. JMHO