EGR/DPF Delete on '09 p4500 C&C

[HBarlow]

Ron,

I believe you are the pioneer.

I know of another C&C owner who removed his soot catcher but I think he "cleared" his codes with a chunk of electrical tape over the CEL.

 

[Wiredawg]

Friends,



I've been in touch with Gianfranco at MADS and Andy at Custom-Diesel, maker of the EGR delete. I'm focusing more effort w/ MADS as their Smarty6. 7ME software is supposed to make EGR/DPF removal code-free. As you know, the truck is throwing a code 0401 EGR Performance after driving a few miles. I have followed instructions from MADS website that include keeping the EGR Valve motor plugged in to prevent codes. There are only three connectors on my EGR: one into the cross-over pipe (heat sensor?), one in the EGR Valve Motor and one in the Throttle Valve in the intake horn. So, you can see there is really not too much to performing this project. My truck only set one code when a couple of months old.



Now, where I am with MADS: Gianfranco informed me I may need to shim my fuel pressure relief valve to prevent setting codes. I don't understand the relationship of the rail fuel pressure and EGR preformance. I'm hoping he can explain further than there is a problem with the Dodge stock ECM software. Since I've been running MADS Smarty6. 7 on my truck for over two years on SW#3 and SW#5 without throwing any codes, I'm reluctant to shim the fuel pressure relief valve, effectively increasing max fuel line pressure. I'm waiting to see what they say next. Bottom line: I've properly completed hardware mods, so it's all about software (to me).



Please share with folks who may have done this on their HD P/Us for their thoughts/experiences.



I'll keep you informed as new info is avail.



Ron

 

[HBarlow]

I'm reading and waiting.

 

[firemansdiesel]

Please share with folks who may have done this on their HD P/Us for their thoughts/experiences.



Ron

Ron, I know it's comparing apples to oranges since you have C&C, but when I installed the Smarty. All I needed to do was unplug the throttle valve and EGR Cooler Servo. I believe you don't have the Cooler Servo on the C&C's (sits on top of the Cooler and looks like a wheel pulley).



Now the programming is the same, and I did not have to shim or plug the rail. Nor has anyone that I know that uses the Smarty Sr. or Smarty Jr. . The H&S tuning (XRT or Mini Max) does recommend shimming or plugging the rail because they incorporate some pressure in their tuning. Smarty does not.



I only ran the Smarty/delete setup for a very short time (under 1,000 miles) and zero codes.

 

[Wiredawg]

JMill, Thx for the info... it does have a bearing.



All, I'm about to got to bed, but I have great info in my OEM Svc Manual that I will check that causes and trouble shoots code 0401... most all involve components that are removed. Be interesting.



C y'all,



Ron

 

[sag2]

The diagnostic is a little vague, but I have to believe the code is set when it compares the Mass Air Flow sensor readings to the calculated EGR flow from the attempted valve opening. Since it does not know the valve didn't open (or does, hence the code from the error in MAF) it has to use the various sensors to cross check and determine a fault. It does not say, but the O2 sensors may also play a part.

 

[Jim W]

Friends,



I've been in touch with Gianfranco at MADS and Andy at Custom-Diesel, maker of the EGR delete. I'm focusing more effort w/ MADS as their Smarty6. 7ME software is supposed to make EGR/DPF removal code-free. As you know, the truck is throwing a code 0401 EGR Performance after driving a few miles. I have followed instructions from MADS website that include keeping the EGR Valve motor plugged in to prevent codes. There are only three connectors on my EGR: one into the cross-over pipe (heat sensor?), one in the EGR Valve Motor and one in the Throttle Valve in the intake horn. So, you can see there is really not too much to performing this project. My truck only set one code when a couple of months old.



Now, where I am with MADS: Gianfranco informed me I may need to shim my fuel pressure relief valve to prevent setting codes. I don't understand the relationship of the rail fuel pressure and EGR preformance. I'm hoping he can explain further than there is a problem with the Dodge stock ECM software. Since I've been running MADS Smarty6. 7 on my truck for over two years on SW#3 and SW#5 without throwing any codes, I'm reluctant to shim the fuel pressure relief valve, effectively increasing max fuel line pressure. I'm waiting to see what they say next. Bottom line: I've properly completed hardware mods, so it's all about software (to me).



Please share with folks who may have done this on their HD P/Us for their thoughts/experiences.



I'll keep you informed as new info is avail.



Ron

Ron,

I installed my Smarty S67 ME software back in Aug 09; I have been code free since. I normally run the programmer on CatCHER level 3 and all of my parameter are set to default except TM which is 2. I believe the heat sensor in the cross over pipe for the EGR system was added to the C&C trucks, this is not part of the early models HD P/Us with the 6. 7L engine.



In reading your post I am wondering if you removed the actuator out of the EGR Motor, leaving the motor plugged in but zip-tied out of the way? Was the EGR Valve Assembly removed and block off plates used? This is part of the 6. 7L engine instructions for the HD P/Us.

Here is another thread from a different forum that has very good instructions of the required changes for the 6. 7L engine with pictures for both the early 6. 7L trucks and the 2011 trucks.

Deleting the 6. 7: A guide to making it run right! - Dodge Diesel - Diesel Truck Resource Forums

This might help you also.

Jim W.

 

[Wiredawg]

Friends,



I may have resolved problem lst night... drove over 60 miles today with no code. time and miles will tell. I followed my OEM manual troubleshooting code P0401 and found a slight boost leak at the plate where I installed EGR throttle body blockoff plate and EGR throttle housing on the intake horn. I installed longer bolts, but appearantly they wer still only about 3/8" threads into the horn. One of the bolts had stripped, so I replaced all with longer bolts. The 6. 7 appears to be very sensitive to any boost leaks. I hope this is the problem.



I will report back in the next couple of days to either confirm or refute the fix.



Ron

 

[HBarlow]

Good troubleshooting. I think the 6. 7 is monitoring and is sensitive to every slight problem.

 

[KDoerr]

Hey you all I have been reading and learning from what was said. I have a 07 sterling Bullet with the 6. 7L and I had nothing but problems with it from day one. I have the full EGR and DPF delete on mine and all i need to say is I now love the truck and have no more problems with it I have it now for two years. The programmer I have is the Smarty jr67 and all the plates. I had a custom muffler built which looks like the stock DPF so when you look under the truck it looks like the DPF is still there. also i just put the plates under the EGR and cooler so as agian when you look under the hood you still see it all there. As for DOT inspections I have no problem with it but that can be because im north of the border from you all. For the fuel Milage i have gained 3-4 Liters/100km when im at full GVW which is up here in canada 20,000KG. I have had the programmer at level 3 which is the tow setting and now I have put it to the performance setting and that is where i get the 3-4L/100km gain. my explanation for that is because i dont have to step on the gas as much to get the truck moving. the only thing im not happy about is the automatic transmission in the truck. I find it shifts to soon for my liking but thats for a nother day. but thats my thought with the emission.

 

[RVTRKN]

That's a good idea you had, and if, and I emphasize the if, your pulled over for excessive smoke, you can say there must be a problem with the DPF. Here in California you would get a fix-it ticket and have an inspection at a CHP office for proof of repair, they will ask for documentation as well, before they interrupt their donut break. :-laf

 

[Wiredawg]

About to Declare Victory

Howdy Friends!



I have about 300 miles on the clock and no codes. Had a very very slight boost leak at the block off plate for the EGR valve. It was not detectable with the boost guage. Very interesting how percisely this engine measures air flow.



Now, for everyone's information: The code P0401 (EGR Performance) can have a cause from an exhaust leak through the EGR into the intake and/or a leak or restricted air flow from the air cleaner all the way through the intake as well. I HIGHLY recommend purchasing the OEM service manual on DVD. I don't miss the book with the CD features. ECM has to detect it four times before it will set a code.



Anyway, I'm about to declare victory... going to Austin and coming back tomorrow, so we'll see if another 160 miles is error free.



Hand calculated, 13. 57 MPG combined. I once got 14. 2 on the highway coming back from Atlanta. So this is good. I've been averaging 12. 6. I took the wing off Wednesday, which was costing me about 1. 3 mpg. I need to give y'all a heads up... I'm not the best for getting good mileage. For example, I only get around 16 MPG in my wife's 2500, between 12 and 13mpg in my 3500. Heavy foot d;vD



I will keep posting for the near future of any activity.



Have great day and a better one tomorrow!



Ron

 

[HBarlow]

Good work, Ron and thanks for the report. You have become the "go to guy" for deleting cab and chassis trucks or any 6. 7s for that matter.

 

[Wiredawg]

Thanks Harvey!



This has been a fun project and I'm glad I deferred to the tried and true technique of systematic trouble shooting versus "gut feeling" or "hit and miss. " To me, the real lesson here is the value of having the factory service manual. I don't think I would have ever resolved this without it.



I was disapointed yesterday when I decided I did not want to modify my wing to lower almost flat in order to keep on the truck It looked cool with Ram/Cummins logos on it, but I follow my guidelines of function before aesthetics. I will start another thread on the airhorns and sound syst upgrade I completed the past couple of weeks and maybe show the truck/traile camera syst I installed a couple of years ago.



On a side note, Vivian and I have opted to take one long vaction per year versus two or three a year. That means I won't have towing info until the end of September when we go to Maryland for three weeks.



And now, I've got granddaughter time, so I'll talk at y'all later.



Cheers, Ron

 

[Wiredawg]

No Codes...Nice Power!

All,



I ran up to Austin trying to set codes. Speed limit is 75 and 80 MPH much of the way, so I ran her at that speed. I did some agressive take offs, but not floored. Super engine response, EGTs up to 1,000' on heavy takeoffs and sitting between 600' and 900'. Overhead has been about 1 mpg low.



Now that I have the performance dialed in, I'm going to see what I can get on fuel mileage. It would be sweet if I could get 15mpg + on this 11. 5K lb truck. I have to avoid showing off to the Ford Scorps and Cheby D-Max. s I'll try hard.



Y'all have a good one...



Wiredawg aka: Ron

 

[Wiredawg]

Friends,



I would like to share some thoughts with you. I currently have SW# 5 on the Smarty on my truck which gives 90 more HP and 180 more lb/ft TQ, which exceeds the 730 lb/ft rating on the Aisin by 55 lb/ft. I'm not sure I've read anywhere of anyone tearing up an Aisin by overpowering it. I'm gogin to talk to a couple of transmission rebuilders and ask if they've worked on Aisin TQ converters or any other components on it. SW#3 actually adds just 5 lb/ft under the TQ rating of the Aisin, and that might be a clue. Just have to figure out how significant 55 lb ft over is. We all know they design at least 10% overkill which would be 75 lb/ft. Isn't math fun?



I've always thought the Cummins motors (5. 9 and 6. 7) could easily safely handle up to 40 PSI of boost. I still haven't put my new 60 psi boost gauge in the truck, but I'm pretty sure It's not pushing more than 40 psi. My 3500 pushes 38 psi all the time. One of the members has been pointing out the turbo on the 6. 7s does not have a wastegate, but I can't imagine it doesn't have a way to bleed off excess boost. I thought that was what the VGT did was open/close an opening to increase/decrease the size of the turbo (mechanically) that results in more or less best. Biggest concern brought up is blowing head gasket.



I'm thinking about starting another thread under C&Cs on how to build a nice tow vehicle. These C&Cs are bad to the bone.



Thanks all for the input and feedback. I look forward to hearing more.



Wiredawg

 

[Bob4x4]

imho the vgt is too small for that much boost. Measure your drive pressure at 40 psi. You may end up being shocked.

 

[Wiredawg]

Bob,



I don't understand the difference and relationship of boost pressure and drive pressure... pls educate me. I need to make decisions based upon full understanding of all the technology.



Thanks, Ron

 

[Jim W]

Ron,

The drive pressure is what drives the exhaust turbine wheel. The drive pressure has been reported to be between 1. 5 and 2 times as much as Boost pressure. So the drive pressure on a 6. 7L engine, if you are at 40PSI boost could be as high as 60 to 80PSI. This pressure may be enough to lift the head and cause a HG to fail.



Everyone needs to remember that the physical outside dimension of the block and head are the same as the 5. 9L engine. The differences are in the inside of the engine were everything was machined over size slightly to build the 6. 7L engine. One of the areas of concerned on the 6. 7L engine is the head gasket (HG). To me this means the HG has less material around the intake and exhaust ports, fastening hardware and such, so the 6. 7L HG is more prone to failure than a 5. 9L HG. So extra effort needs to be taken to support the bolted joint between the head and engine to prevent the head lifting and causing the HG to fail. One way is to use heat treated studs and nuts that provide for full thread engagement and higher clamp loads then the current mounting bolts that are used.



Before anyone points out that Ron has a C&C and not a pick-up truck. Will the engine that is used in the C&C is the same as in a pick-up truck and when modifying the ECM on a C&C with an aftermarket programmer, the effects will be the same as in a pick-up truck. So that is why gages are so important to monitor what is happening to the engine now and to understand the risks that are associated with modifications.

Jim W.

 

[Bob4x4]

Well said Jim