engine oil capacity

[Mark31]

A decent running 2006 4x4 auto with 227k. The oil (Rotela) is changed every 5k. Fram filter is put on empty. Fourteen (yes--14) quarts of oil because "that's what it takes to fill it to the full mark. " Just had to replace a leaking valve cover gasket. Owner knows more than all of us combined on most subjects so he sees no need to subscribe to TDR. If I treated mine like that, it would probably puke, aerate, blow it out, or blow it up! What is he hurting, or is the Cummins tuff enough to take that for 700k? Mark

 

[HBarlow]

I couldn't understand your post. Were you saying the truck is for sale?

A Cummins B5. 9 requires three gallons, 12 quarts of lube oil.

A Fram oil filter is one of the worst things you can do to a Cummins engine. Many Cummins have been destroyed by Fram filters when the filter media or adhesives used in manufacture migrate into the oil cooling jets under each piston. When the small opening is blocked, the piston overheats, expands, scores itself and and the cylinder wall, and an engine is destroyed.

 

[Mark31]

Uncle Harvey, no, this truck isn't for sale. It has to work hard for an electrical contractor that does lot of power line repair/maintaining. The new TDR issue told about the earlier Fram problems, and "didn't speak too highly" of the new ones as well as a lot of others. What will 14 quarts of oil do? He ain't gonna change because that what it takes by the dipstick! Can the Cummins take a "dry" installed filter without long term damage? I thought it was real important to fill 'em up first! Mark

 

[Mikey-KE7LBB]

Dry filter is okay if he wants to reduce the life by a couple thousand and use a Fram if reduction of a couple hundred thousand is desired :-laf



Extra 2 quarts shouldn't cause a problem other than reduced power and fuel mileage due to the oil "twisting" around the crank and adding some stress and load to the engine :-laf



Can this guy read??? Just asking because capacity is clearly stated in the owner's manual and also the recommendation to use the Mopar brand filters :-laf



Don't want to start a filter war or anything, but... Fram??? Come on!!

 

[HBarlow]

Mark,

As Mikey suggested, 14 quarts of oil will probably cause the crank to churn the oil and that may aerate the oil. Air bubbles don't do a very good job of lubricating hard working bearings.

Like Mikey said, can't the guy read? I have read posts in the past several years where some owners questioned whether their dipsticks were inaccurate. Don't know what was determined but three even gallons is easy and correct not to mention cheaper than overfilling with fourteen.

Some preach pre-filling an oil filter, some install them dry. An engine always has some residual oil to assist at start-up. The danger of pre-filling is the risk of pouring a bit of aluminum foil seal into the center chamber of the filter which is post filter. Oil poured into the center goes directly into the engine not the filter element.

The Cummins engine can take lots of abuse and neglect but your friend or acquaintance is shortening the service life of his. If a cheapo Fram filter gives up material that blocks a piston cooling jet he'll shorten engine life to that day. He'll be buying an engine or a truck.

But each to his own. Some hold stubbornly to some pretty stupid ideas. It is their right.

 

[steved]

Regarding the Fram, the Fram responsible for the failed engines was superceded by a revised filter (same number, with an "A" at the end). While they aren't the best choice

In filters, I believe they fixed the issues with the original filter that caused the problem.



If I fill my truck to "full", its 13 quarts... the dipsticks are known to be inaccurate.

 

[AH64ID]

I would get a new dipstick and go from there. I personally wouldn't like seeing my dipstick showing the oil was low, even if I knew it wasn't.



I seem to recall there being some wrongly calibrated dipsticks, but thats just a vague memory.



I also find it interesting that the Cummins crowd cares more about volume than dipsticks, this is the only group of people I have ever seen do that. They give you a dipstick for a reason.

 

[cerberusiam]

I also find it interesting that the Cummins crowd cares more about volume than dipsticks, this is the only group of people I have ever seen do that. They give you a dipstick for a reason.

That is because too much oil ends up getting puked out the crank case vent and coating the under carriage. Good rust inhibitor but sucks to work on it. :-laf



Stupid dip sticks are made by a machine and their machines get out of wack and the full mark ends up all over the board. It is oh so much easier to put 3 gallons in and go by that measure than exact on the dip stick.



Not that a couple quarts over is going to make much of a difference when the engne is running but it is a question at what point the oil gets churned.

 

[Wingate]

Stupid dip sticks are made by a machine and their machines get out of wack and the full mark ends up all over the board. It is oh so much easier to put 3 gallons in and go by that measure than exact on the dip stick.

.

Exactly... . Put 3 gallons in it and forget about it. The dipsticks and their tubes are NOT a matched set... . Its more a guide to make sure there is oil IN it rather than a precise measurement.

 

[BIGNASTY]

Mine takes a bit more but the reason is the FS 2500 3 gal +

 

[AlaskanCummins]

I let mine drain for at least 2 hours (while I inspect/change other stuff) and I always put in 12 quarts. My dipstick has always been over "full" and in the middle of the part #; give/take.



I just adhere to the manual - it says 12 quarts w/filter; that's what I do.

 

[AH64ID]

It still amazes me... You guys really think that everything on this motor is built to the best specs, but the dipstick? It's the funniest thing I have ever heard!



I know there was 1 year (06?) that had a dipstick issue, but all the rest? Don't think so, but for some reason you feel that Cummins shorted you.



This is a Cummins owner thing only, there isn't another group of engine owners I have ever met that could care less what the dipstick says. You do realize that 12 qts is the capacity, and that the design of the block and the pan holds oil, probably a quart or more... so by draining all you can and adding 12 you are overfilled, simple as that.



I just don't get it...

 

[sag2]

Most paid for oil changes never get a filter prefilled, and I still have never run into an oil related failure on any Cummins. The filters are not prefilled at the factory, and the engine only has assembly lube on the parts. I would not loose any sleep over it on any engine.

 

[BIGNASTY]

Quit thinking with your dipstick jimmie

 

[MChrist]

Quit thinking with your dipstick jimmie

:-laf:-laf:-laf. I get that!!! Not sure if everybody else saw that commercial. .

 

[AlaskanCummins]

OK; say the dipstick is the golden rule. My kid has a 5. 0 in his 94 Ford - specs calls for 6 quarts w/filter. Change filter, add 6 quarts, run it for a couple of minutes, let it settle for 5 minutes and bingo, it's on full.



I had a 1996 Powerstroke that called for 14 quarts w/a filter. Do the same as w/kids truck and bingo, it's on full.



Wife's 2010 VW TDI Jetta - Specs calls for 5 quarts w/filter change. Do the same as w/kids truck and bingo, it's on full.



2004 Cummins - Specs calls for 12 quarts w/filter change. Perform same as above and oooops, it's over full. Why?



Is it a Cummins thing? Is there so much residual in the engine that it's now a half, maybe quart over full?



Maybe that's why it's instantaneously black from the get go, I don't know.

 

[cerberusiam]

Quit thinking with your dipstick jimmie

Awww, no need to treat AH64ID that harshly. He really means well. :-laf:-laf

Is it a Cummins thing? Is there so much residual in the engine that it's now a half, maybe quart over full?

Yep, thats exactly it. How long do you let it drain and is it warm or cold? Both wil make adifference on what the dip stick reads.

 

[AH64ID]

2004 Cummins - Specs calls for 12 quarts w/filter change. Perform same as above and oooops, it's over full. Why?



Is it a Cummins thing? Is there so much residual in the engine that it's now a half, maybe quart over full?



Maybe that's why it's instantaneously black from the get go, I don't know.

I think thats it. Look at the design of the oil pan the plug goes a long ways in there, and the bottom of the pan is so large that it looks like it could hold a qt or more! Also the head holds oil, the oil cooler holds oil, etc. . The motor retains over a qt from what I have heard. As you stated its one of the reasons the oil gets black so quick, its so black when you drain it that when you add new oil to the remaining qt it gets black instantly.



The engine capacity is 11 qts, the filter capacity is 1 qt (stock filter, they are all prob a little different). So if you only get 10 out, and you add 11 your 1 qt over. I have found nothing that states its 12 qts for an oil change, just what the total capacity it. Assuming it's always going to be 12 qts is like asking why your 35 gallon fuel tank only took 33 gallons but said it was "E". .

 

[BIGNASTY]

:-laf:-laf:-laf. I get that!!! Not sure if everybody else saw that commercial. .

I dont watch TV shows much but im easily entertained by commercials

 

[AH64ID]

That is a pretty funny commercial!