Engine Shutdown When In Regeneration Mode

[HBarlow]

Below is a reply I received from Cummins, Inc. to a question I sent by e-mail asking whether it is acceptable to shut the engine down if it is in the regeneration mode. I was disappointed that Cummins was unable or unwilling to answer the question. The person who replied explained that Dodge, not Cummins, developed the "BlueTech" emission control system and only Dodge can/should answer the question.



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Summary: EveryTime. Cummins.com Comments



Solution:

Thanks for your Email message. You have contacted Cummins, Inc. at our Customer Assistance Center located in Columbus, Indiana. This is our worldwide headquarters and has been our home since Clessie Cummins founded the company February 3, 1919.



Hello Harvey, we aren't trying to avoid your question, but we need you to contact your local Dodge dealer for this type of information. Here's why: Not all of the regeneration systems are made by Cummins. Many of them are BlueTec systems which are made by Mercedes. We do not know the fine points of those system's operation. Also the system that Dodge has in place is different than most other chassis manufacturers.



Notwithstanding when you purchased your Dodge product you also bought into Dodge's customer support. Therefore they should be providing you with answers to your questions. If your current dealer is unable to satisfy you, then it may be time to find a new dealer.



Customer Assistance Center

Cummins, Inc.

Columbus, Indiana, USA

==========================================================

Here is my question to Cummins, Inc. :



"I am the satisfied owner of a new 2008 Dodge Ram 3500 Cab and Chassis truck.



My question concerns whether it is acceptable to shut off the engine while it is in the "regeneration" mode.



On several occasions, often when it is the least convenient for me, I reach for the key to shut off the engine only to discover by looking at my pyrometer that EGT is 600* to 800* at idle. If I allow the engine to continue idling for several minutes the temperature remains in the same range. I assume that is because the ECM has initiated a "regeneration" or cleaning cycle



Over 550,000 miles of driving two previous Dodge Rams with Cummins engines has taught me to always check the pyrometer to make sure the exhaust gas temperature has cooled to 350* or below before shutting down.



Since there is no way for the driver to know that the new truck is in the regeneration mode without an aftermarket pyrometer and there are no warnings about avoiding shut down while in the regeneration mode in the owner's manual, I have to assume that Cummins is not concerned about the likelihood of hot shutdowns while in the regeneration mode.



When this has occurred I change my plans and instead of parking, I return to the highway and run the truck at highway cruise speed for 30 miles in each direction. This is an expensive and wasteful practice and not exactly what I wish to do.



I don't want to shut the truck down when engine and turbo components are hot but I'm not sure if a higher EGT reading while in the regeneration mode is an accurate indicator of piston, valves, cylinder head, and turbocharger temperatures.



Please advise me what to do in order to protect the long service life of my engine.



Thanks,

Harvey Barlow"

 

[jtwcummins]

Since the factory didn't inlude anything that shows a regen is in process I shut off engine when I need to, sometimes it smells and is hot. Would love a LED showing when regen is going on, I can tell by gauges but they are aftermarket.

 

[Bob4x4]

once you take the trans out of drive the regen process stops



Bob

 

[Allnew2Me]

Somebody asked that question at May Madness, the Rep from Rocky Mountain Cummins was there to answer questions. He said go ahead and shut it down, it doesn't hurt anything. The turbo is watercooled so you don't have the same temp issues as the earlier gens did. Also, the regen mode is automatic and will resume when you drive it again. As far as an indictor light, he said Dodge didn't want one because our trucks are consumer products and it would likely confuse most people. The regen system is designed to run in the background.

 

[Coalsmoke]

Somebody asked that question at May Madness, the Rep from Rocky Mountain Cummins was there to answer questions. He said go ahead and shut it down, it doesn't hurt anything. The turbo is watercooled so you don't have the same temp issues as the earlier gens did. Also, the regen mode is automatic and will resume when you drive it again. As far as an indictor light, he said Dodge didn't want one because our trucks are consumer products and it would likely confuse most people. The regen system is designed to run in the background.

Cummins has given me the same answer. He did say that if towing heavy or if you immediately came off a highway, you should still let it cool down for a couple of minutes. That said I try to ensure that I let the EGTs come down into the 3-400*F range first.

 

[jelag]

08 5500 with 19K miles... . at this point... . we've never really seen ours go into the process... from our take on this it is a seamless operation...

I agree with Cummins comments... . as I assume that the system will be different when this engine is in a Ford F650 or any other chassis... . its usually the chassis builder that provides the other items and has to finally deal with the EPA to certify their vehicle. .

 

[grasmo]

I suspected months ago that the emissions were not Cummins. I could be wrong. As time goes on I am coming to the opinion that dodge is finally tweaking out the problems that were showing up with the 07. 5 -6. 7s . I remember the dealer telling me that mine had attempted to regen numerous times and that because I would turn off the engine before it would complete the regen it was clogging up the
dpf. I clogged 3 of them within 14k miles.

 

[dlmetzger]

Cummins response

Cummins response does not make sense. There was a previous thread (https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/6-7l-engine-transmissions-2007-5/196176-emissions-cummins-dodge.html?highlight=dodge+cummins+emissions+heavy+duty, post # 10) about who actually designed/tested/certified the emissions on the Dodge 6. 7L engine and it was Cummins not Dodge. For them to state that:



"Not all of the regeneration systems are made by Cummins. Many of them are BlueTec systems which are made by Mercedes. We do not know the fine points of those system's operation. "



is very misleading if not false. It would have been better if Cummins just stated:





"Notwithstanding when you purchased your Dodge product you also bought into Dodge's customer support. Therefore they should be providing you with answers to your questions. If your current dealer is unable to satisfy you, then it may be time to find a new dealer. "

 

[Bob4x4]

Cummins response does not make sense. There was a previous thread (https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/6-7l-engine-transmissions-2007-5/196176-emissions-cummins-dodge.html?highlight=dodge+cummins+emissions+heavy+duty, post # 10) about who actually designed/tested/certified the emissions on the Dodge 6. 7L engine and it was Cummins not Dodge. For them to state that:



"Not all of the regeneration systems are made by Cummins. Many of them are BlueTec systems which are made by Mercedes. We do not know the fine points of those system's operation. "



is very misleading if not false. It would have been better if Cummins just stated:





"Notwithstanding when you purchased your Dodge product you also bought into Dodge's customer support. Therefore they should be providing you with answers to your questions. If your current dealer is unable to satisfy you, then it may be time to find a new dealer. "

:-laf I have to agree since the Cummins does not use BlueTec,as of yet either do any of the Chrysler product line. (other than the name plate)

They are still saying that urea injection is coming... ... ... .



Bob

 

[Cattletrkr]

Is there a sound or anything detectable when the regen is occurring? 9300 miles on mine and never any indication of any regen.

 

[Coalsmoke]

Is there a sound or anything detectable when the regen is occurring? 9300 miles on mine and never any indication of any regen.

Slightly better throttle response and a little more power, but its hard to notice unless I see that it is in regen mode displayed on my Insight.

 

[grasmo]

Does anyones truck make a gurgling sound on occassion while idling, such as at start up ... . mine does and it sounds exactly like a small outboard boat motors exhaust bubbling up through the water. I swear I believe my timing is just moving all around at random. Also I am getting very close to having my offer from Chrysler regarding my lemon law case.

 

[Coalsmoke]

Grasmo, you have one messed up truck.

 

[CEly]

:-lafHave you ever tried an exorcism?

 

[grasmo]

Drove approx 60 miles round trip yesterday evening to Thomasville ,Georgia... just for kicks I set the cruise on 50 mph. and reset the overhead ... . the son of a gun got 22. 3 mpg... . very ,very ,very boring. At one point in my trip the overhead dropped down to 16 mpg for about a mile or 2 ... I guess it was doing some type of regen ... . I was on flat ground when it did this. Later on I also noticed a 3/10 increase with front windows up. WEIRD... ... . My other dodge diesels never behave to such sensitive nuances. Could be they dont computers and thats why
I never have noticed but i would not have thought that you could gain 3/10 from the windows being up. Still waiting on Chryslers offer for lemon law.

 

[Coalsmoke]

Coefficient of friction differences with the windows up or down is surprising, more resistance = lower efficiency for that given speed. By opening a window you're basically putting an obstacle right in the laminar flow.

 

[phxpsd]

Plugged Turbo and Particulate collector

I have an 08 3500 Quad 4x4 Bighorn, on Thursday it started sputering and ruunning like it was out of fuel. Then on the overhead console came the message "Catalyst Full, see dealer". Truck only has 4400 miles on it, I just came back from a 300 mile roundtrip highway (7% mountain grades) road trip on Tuesday. ******* says it needs new turbo, puts it on and calls and tells me everything is "ok" come and get it. So before I am to the end of the stealers drive the SES comes on and I get the same message on the overhead. So back to the service writer and they try to "clean" the turbo out and reset the computer. No dice. So it gets to spend the weekend at the ******* until they can get a new particulate filter. I never idle this think, try to drive it like I stole it. What a POS. I absolutely hate being the R&D for a product that is not ready for public consumption.



I drove a Ford (2000) PSD for 200,000 miles and never had an issue til the clutch fork broke (another corporate blunder) at 75,000 miles, but I knew it was coming after being active on Ford Diesel. Com, now the Powerstop.com.



I was reading issue 60 of my TDR last night and see that other owners are experiencing the same issues. Lemon law here we come.

 

[phxpsd]

POS Dodge

Oh yeah, and to add insult to injury as I am sputtering down the road at 10mph, some guy drives buy and yells "you should've bought a Ford"! Uh, yeah! I hope the 6. 4 is better than the 6. 0... ... .

 

[Coalsmoke]

phxpsd, why is it that those who seem have the most problems with vehicles are also of the mentality to give engine break in advice to

drive it like you stole it

if you don't like your Dodge go buy a new 6. 4, they are FANTASTIC engines and the new ford styling is a real winner:-laf

 

[phxpsd]

I drove the Ford "like I stole it" and it only got better with time. Now a gasser, you need to to make sure and break it in nicely, but diesels are made to work. Once you get past the 500 mile mark, load em up and haul ***. But obviously Dodge has made the same fatal mistake that GM made by trying to mess with an already proven product and botching it with their own mods.