Engine Stall After Acceleration

[907cummins]

2006 5.9 Cummins automatic transmission.

Today after accelerating hard and letting off the the throttle my engine died. Still had electrical power to everything, just the engine shut off. I put it in neutral while coasting and it started right back up-- no hesitation, no sputtering, etc.

Truck has a Fass 165G Lift Pump, Exergy 50HP injectors, custom tune and some other minor performance mods. Only codes that truck has thrown to my knowledge are P0088: Rail Pressure Signal Is Above Max Limit.

Tune has 5 settings-- stock-race. Truck was in Street (setting 3) when codes were thrown and today when engine stalled.

Anybody ever experience this on a 2006 5.9? I know this is somewhat common older models with VP44 pump, but can vapor/air lock happen on CP3 pump, as well?

 

[Darkbloodmon]

Need more details.

Fuel level? 1/4 fuel starvation issues? Fuel system primed?

Do you have a rail relief valve or a rail relief plug?

How many miles on your truck?

Welcome to the Forums.

 

[907cummins]

Need more details.

Fuel level? 1/4 fuel starvation issues? Fuel system primed?

Do you have a rail relief valve or a rail relief plug?

How many miles on your truck?

Welcome to the Forums.

Need more details.

Fuel level? 1/4 fuel starvation issues? Fuel system primed?

Do you have a rail relief valve or a rail relief plug?

How many miles on your truck?

Welcome to the Forums.

1. Fuel level was about 1/4 tank— maybe a hair below.
2. I would assume the fuel system was primed. Haven’t changed the Fass filters in a while and it has ran fine.
3. To my knowledge it has a valve, although I was told by a member I need to remove the PRV to see if it is plugged- which I haven’t done yet.
4. Truck is sitting right below 115,00 miles.

The only other symptom, which might not be a symptom in other’s eyes is: when engine is in high gear and I give it half throttle or more and it hasn’t downshifted yet I get a rattle sound that’s there until it downshifts. It seems like a fueling problem to me. I was thinking of replacing FCA and Fuel Pressure Sensor before the engine stall today.
Thanks for the reply and thanks for the welcome!

 

[Darkbloodmon]

Are you using a factory sending unit or sump pickup? I've had issues with my 52G tank and fuel slosh/starvation at a 1/4 tank prior to installing a Fleece sending unit.

That shift point symptom under acceleration may be important in diag. Hopefully someone with more experience with automatics can chime in, my 03 is stick.

How long has that been going on? Is your transmission built and or tuned for your engine tunes?

Do you know if your engine tunes are running a stock fuel cut? It's my first time hearing of an engine cut from too high a rail pressure.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the relief valve pop open at 21K ? I've hit 25K under hard acceleration in 5th gear pulling to 70mph (on ramps)

Can you try to repeat the symptoms on the stock tune? The downshift issue and the fuel cut? Without knowing what on the tune file has been modified it'll be easier to diag on a stock programed truck if you can repeat the same symptoms.

 

[907cummins]

Are you using a factory sending unit or sump pickup? I've had issues with my 52G tank and fuel slosh/starvation at a 1/4 tank prior to installing a Fleece sending unit.

That shift point symptom under acceleration may be important in diag. Hopefully someone with more experience with automatics can chime in, my 03 is stick.

How long has that been going on? Is your transmission built and or tuned for your engine tunes?

Do you know if your engine tunes are running a stock fuel cut? It's my first time hearing of an engine cut from too high a rail pressure.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the relief valve pop open at 21K ? I've hit 25K under hard acceleration in 5th gear pulling to 70mph (on ramps)

Can you try to repeat the symptoms on the stock tune? The downshift issue and the fuel cut? Without knowing what on the tune file has been modified it'll be easier to diag on a stock programed truck if you can repeat the same symptoms.

Truck has a sump pickup and factory/oem sending unit, which was replaced not too long ago. The lugging/rattling sound at high gear low rpm has been happening since I have owned the truck. I just assumed it was a minor fueling issue associated with a failing FCA, pressure sensor, or PRV. Transmission is built with all billet internals and low stall torque converter and tune was done after transmission build. I am not sure if the tunes are running a stock fuel cut. Again, I have only ever had this issue in the #3 "street" tune setting-- so maybe something funky with that specific tune package. I can try to repeat the problem with the stock tune. I'll post back after attempts.

As a side note, my battery is starting to crap out and I just haven't replaced it yet. It will get to low from two days of sitting. Anything related to this? The Fass lift pump runs off of the battery, correct?

Would a good place to start be replacing the Fass fuel filter and water separator?

 

[Darkbloodmon]

As a side note, my battery is starting to crap out and I just haven't replaced it yet. It will get to low from two days of sitting. Anything related to this? The Fass lift pump runs off of the battery, correct?

Would a good place to start be replacing the Fass fuel filter and water separator?

Batteries can be the source of alot of issues, that is a pretty important detail. Failing battery(s), corroded or loose terminals/ cross over cables can all do some strange things to these trucks. Healthy batteries are a good place to start albeit expensive, you can also try cleaning your cable ends/terminal posts and grounds. If the batteries take a charge it'd be a cheaper option than replacement at least while trying to pinpoint the cause of your issues assuming its not related to the batteries.

The Fass pump should have a power and ground going to a battery or tapped into a power source along with a trigger wire for key on power, you can go on Fass' website and download a PDF of the wiring diagram/connectors to compare it to your setup just incase the previous owner got creative with it.

 

[907cummins]

Batteries can be the source of a lot of issues, that is a pretty important detail. Failing battery(s), corroded or loose terminals/ cross over cables can all do some strange things to these trucks. Healthy batteries are a good place to start albeit expensive, you can also try cleaning your cable ends/terminal posts and grounds. If the batteries take a charge it'd be a cheaper option than replacement at least while trying to pinpoint the cause of your issues assuming its not related to the batteries.

The Fass pump should have a power and ground going to a battery or tapped into a power source along with a trigger wire for key on power, you can go on Fass' website and download a PDF of the wiring diagram/connectors to compare it to your setup just incase the previous owner got creative with it.

So, I tried to repeat the issue and I cannot. I filled up the tank, so maybe it was the 1/4 tank cavitation issue. Two more questions:

1. Can I install the Fleece Fuel Sending Unit even though I have a sump on my tank? From the description on their website it sounds like it bypasses the need for a sump.
2. What is the best/most recommended fuel additive for the 5.9 Cummins? I am seeing lots of different recommendations on here.

 

[Ozymandias]

Powerservice - it's approved by Cummins.

 

[Ozymandias]

I wouldn't point to a fuel issue with what happened to you. A fuel issue it would more slowly die instead be dead like off with a switch.
To me it sounds more like an electrical issue. Hard to figure out but I would start at the ground wires around the engine and such, as it happened after you had full torque on it (engine maximum twisted in its mounts) and released the torque digital (Engine swings back to its resting position).

 

[Darkbloodmon]

1. Can I install the Fleece Fuel Sending Unit even though I have a sump on my tank? From the description on their website it sounds like it bypasses the need for a sump.

You'd need to do some plumbing, I've installed the sure flow sending unit on my 52G tank because of quarter tank issues from the sump pick up on the tank. I have it feeding into my lift pump with a factory return line to the sending unit and my fass lift pump return. I plugged the built in sump and intend to use it for draining bad fuel tanks/samples. Love the sending unit its a better mouse trap.

I would hold off on spending any money on parts till you narrow it down and get repeatable symptoms.

 

[907cummins]

So, I still am unable to replicate the engine stall. I also checked ground wires and other electrical components and everything seems solid.

I’m curious if this has to do with my first post here about FCA or PRV. My fuel economy gauge is reading a consistent 9mpg, which is terrible. It has been sub freezing temps for the past 5 months where I live, so maybe that’s why?

Could a failing PRV, FCA, or fuel pressure sensor cause any of these symptoms, including the poor fuel economy? Definitely feels like truck is not at full power, as well.

Also, can anybody direct me to somebody that does tuning? I keep noticing odd little things with my tune. I'll try to fix the issues now and maybe they will resolve, but I have a feeling that the tune was done poorly because of occasional random shifts and other small things. I have an MM3 tuner.

 

[907cummins]

Batteries can be the source of alot of issues, that is a pretty important detail. Failing battery(s), corroded or loose terminals/ cross over cables can all do some strange things to these trucks. Healthy batteries are a good place to start albeit expensive, you can also try cleaning your cable ends/terminal posts and grounds. If the batteries take a charge it'd be a cheaper option than replacement at least while trying to pinpoint the cause of your issues assuming its not related to the batteries.

The Fass pump should have a power and ground going to a battery or tapped into a power source along with a trigger wire for key on power, you can go on Fass' website and download a PDF of the wiring diagram/connectors to compare it to your setup just incase the previous owner got creative with it.

So, I still am unable to replicate the engine stall. I also checked ground wires and other electrical components and everything seems solid.

I’m curious if this has to do with my first post here about FCA or PRV. My fuel economy gauge is reading a consistent 9mpg, which is terrible. It has been sub freezing temps for the past 5 months where I live, so maybe that’s why?

Could a failing PRV, FCA, or fuel pressure sensor cause any of these symptoms, including the poor fuel economy? Definitely feels like truck is not at full power, as well.

Also, can anybody direct me to somebody that does tuning? I keep noticing odd little things with my tune. I'll try to fix the issues now and maybe they will resolve, but I have a feeling that the tune was done poorly because of occasional random shifts and other small things. I have an MM3 tuner.

 

[Darkbloodmon]

I’m curious if this has to do with my first post here about FCA or PRV. My fuel economy gauge is reading a consistent 9mpg, which is terrible. It has been sub freezing temps for the past 5 months where I live, so maybe that’s why?

Could a failing PRV, FCA, or fuel pressure sensor cause any of these symptoms, including the poor fuel economy? Definitely feels like truck is not at full power, as well.

Going back to the P0088 code you have.

To be honest its hard to say which one to replace first, they are all three pretty closely related. The FCA regulates system pressure to the rail, the Rail pressure sensor monitors system pressure and sends feedback to the ECM for actual pressure, and the PRV overflows excess pressure.

Someone correct me if im wrong, but the PRV opens at 21K PSI, you can hit 25K PSI spikes with hard acceleration(at least I have with my 03). I don't know and wasn't able to find what PSI is excessive enough to trigger that code most likely coming from the fuel pressure sensor.

Lets say for the sake of diagnosis that the rail pressure needs to be constantly high enough over multiple drive cycles of observation to trigger that code. What regulates the pressure? the FCA. You didn't mention that you had any hard start conditions which can indicate a failed FCA or stuck open PRV. So while driving the FCA may be allowing excess pressure to the rail. To my knowledge there isn't a fuel cut that would stall the engine out. The fuel cut is a fuel de-rate. That can be overwritten with tuning.

First and foremost I would keep the programing stock for a few more tanks down to a quarter in an attempt to replicate, after which try going back to the tune you were on when you noticed the symptoms. If the symptoms come back with the code then we can assume that it has something to do with the tune writing.

In the event that you do replicate the symptoms on the stock tune for a few more tanks; trying a new FCA can't hurt and would be my suggestion for the first round in the parts cannon; next round would be the fuel pressure sensor. If you want to try an even cheaper method than replacing the FCA; a few tanks of power service injection system cleaner can't hurt.

 

[907cummins]

Going back to the P0088 code you have.

To be honest its hard to say which one to replace first, they are all three pretty closely related. The FCA regulates system pressure to the rail, the Rail pressure sensor monitors system pressure and sends feedback to the ECM for actual pressure, and the PRV overflows excess pressure.

Someone correct me if im wrong, but the PRV opens at 21K PSI, you can hit 25K PSI spikes with hard acceleration(at least I have with my 03). I don't know and wasn't able to find what PSI is excessive enough to trigger that code most likely coming from the fuel pressure sensor.

Lets say for the sake of diagnosis that the rail pressure needs to be constantly high enough over multiple drive cycles of observation to trigger that code. What regulates the pressure? the FCA. You didn't mention that you had any hard start conditions which can indicate a failed FCA or stuck open PRV. So while driving the FCA may be allowing excess pressure to the rail. To my knowledge there isn't a fuel cut that would stall the engine out. The fuel cut is a fuel de-rate. That can be overwritten with tuning.

First and foremost I would keep the programing stock for a few more tanks down to a quarter in an attempt to replicate, after which try going back to the tune you were on when you noticed the symptoms. If the symptoms come back with the code then we can assume that it has something to do with the tune writing.

In the event that you do replicate the symptoms on the stock tune for a few more tanks; trying a new FCA can't hurt and would be my suggestion for the first round in the parts cannon; next round would be the fuel pressure sensor. If you want to try an even cheaper method than replacing the FCA; a few tanks of power service injection system cleaner can't hurt.

Thanks for all the help. I will keep attempting to recreate. You are correct, I have no hard start or rough idle issues. Does the fuel mileage that I mentioned seem odd to anybody? 9 mpg is so low that I don't even like driving the truck with the price of diesel. My daily driver was totaled out a couple of weeks ago, so I am stuck driving this truck for now-- would be nice to get my fuel mileage cleared up. I am assuming since the FCA, PRV, and FPS all regulate fuel supply/flow to the engine that one of these failing/or have failed can cause poor fuel mileage, but that's just my assumption.

I did treat my most recent tank of fuel with Powerservice Diesel Kleen and the engine seems quieter, smoother and throttle response seems better. This could all just be placebo because I was wanting this to happen, but my fiancée did say the truck sounded quieter.

Can somebody with a late model 5.9 chime in on my tuning situation? I currently have a custom tune that was flashed to the ECM via the MM3, but I am reading more that EFI Live is the way to go for this truck. I want to make this thing more drivable and more efficient and then maybe I won't have to get a new daily. Would be nice to throw the total loss payment I received into savings/retirement rather than dumping it into a $60K+ new vehicle.

 

[907cummins]

Going back to the P0088 code you have.

To be honest its hard to say which one to replace first, they are all three pretty closely related. The FCA regulates system pressure to the rail, the Rail pressure sensor monitors system pressure and sends feedback to the ECM for actual pressure, and the PRV overflows excess pressure.

Someone correct me if im wrong, but the PRV opens at 21K PSI, you can hit 25K PSI spikes with hard acceleration(at least I have with my 03). I don't know and wasn't able to find what PSI is excessive enough to trigger that code most likely coming from the fuel pressure sensor.

Lets say for the sake of diagnosis that the rail pressure needs to be constantly high enough over multiple drive cycles of observation to trigger that code. What regulates the pressure? the FCA. You didn't mention that you had any hard start conditions which can indicate a failed FCA or stuck open PRV. So while driving the FCA may be allowing excess pressure to the rail. To my knowledge there isn't a fuel cut that would stall the engine out. The fuel cut is a fuel de-rate. That can be overwritten with tuning.

First and foremost I would keep the programing stock for a few more tanks down to a quarter in an attempt to replicate, after which try going back to the tune you were on when you noticed the symptoms. If the symptoms come back with the code then we can assume that it has something to do with the tune writing.

In the event that you do replicate the symptoms on the stock tune for a few more tanks; trying a new FCA can't hurt and would be my suggestion for the first round in the parts cannon; next round would be the fuel pressure sensor. If you want to try an even cheaper method than replacing the FCA; a few tanks of power service injection system cleaner can't hurt.

I was able to recreate the stalling! Happened the same way as last time-- accelerating hard, this time up to about 70mph, then letting off the throttle and coasting. Everything was normal while coasting until about 35mph then that's when engine cut off. Throttle was not touched at all during coasting, which makes me wonder if I would have gave it throttle again if it wouldn't have stalled. All electrical was running, just the engine cut out. Put the truck in neutral while coasting and it started right up. Now, this definitely seems like a fueling issue, which brings me back to square one on the above mentioned fueling parts.