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Exploring garage/shop options - pole barn or not for attached building?

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You must also factor in the effiency. I got a good deal on a Buderus unit and they are about as efficient, for LP, as you can get. It seems like a really well designed unit but it would have been way too expensive is I hadn't got a deal from a friend who also wanted me to have a heated shop :) :)





I would love to have an outdoor stove and clean scraps to feed it ! But they don't give those stoves away and people around here find out they don't last that long if they aren't stainless steel :{



I would love to live in Tenn and Les's $150/month to heat is about what I'm estimating and I know it's way colder here most of the time. Les do you have insulation under the floor?



Matt, I started a thread about 3 years ago asking about shops and there was some pretty good input. I did most of it, except I didn't want to have tie-downs in my concrete cause the croncrete is really expensive and I was trying to keep the stress risers to a mininum so it would hopefully never crack away from the zip strips. If you don't know what a zip strip is I'll show you.



That thread also convinced me that I needed a full bath. So I roughed it in vents and all. Maybe later this year I can add a small septic for it $$$



As pointed out, it's nice to have a cool shop in the summer. So rough in for a 2 ton wall unit and give some more money to the chinese. It will do the trick in the upper midwest.
 
Scott:



I'm really looking forward to doing some work in your shop pretty soon. I'll be bringing along the camera and a fat notebook. :)



Thanks again for the input, guys.



Cheers,



Matt
 
Here is something else I should have thought about when I built the shop



Today I drive home through a snow storm, I knock all the snow off the truck that I can get to, then pull into the heated garage.



1 hour later I go outside and there is water everywhere. I should have built the floor where the truck sits to drain into my sump pump. Instead I just cranked up the heat, then go out every hour or so and squegy the water off the floor.
 
SMorneau, Do you have a link or the brand name of those garage doors?



Also, If Tyvek is wrapped around the outside of the poles, the walls can then be insulated w/ normal fiberglass or blown-in, with out condensation problems?



Wayne
 
Words of warning:1. In floor heating can not be turned off in the winter. I have one customer who left his shop door cracked open about a foot all night and they claim it frooze the lines and broke them so ihs system now leaks. Something to look into further.

2. Parking vehicles in a heated area can lead to condensation in the fuel tank. I am not saying over 32, but pulling a vehicle from 0 into an area heated to 60 this is a lot more likely.



My father bought a used waste oil heater from a guy who got tired of fighting with it for about half of new and now has several people giving him oil to burn in it.



Just be sure a check your local building codes and with your insurance agent about the cost of different ideas comparativly, but the area you have would work great for maintaing the roof line and getting a connected taller work area. I have seen giant poll barns attached to houses here but that was done for $$$$ reasons. Years ago when they put in Natural Gas wells in some areas they gave the owners free gas for their houses. Since the shop was built onto the house it fell into that catagory and they heat them for free.



Troy
 
Matt my new building does not have heat.



If funds come together in the next year or two I will probably go waste oil hot air. When you live in highly populated areas, waste oil is easy to get.



Heater should pay for it self in a few years.



Mike
 
tgordon said:
Words of warning:1. In floor heating can not be turned off in the winter. I have one customer who left his shop door cracked open about a foot all night and they claim it frooze the lines and broke them so ihs system now leaks. Something to look into further.



This depends... if you run straight water in your system, then yes, it will need to run all year. Most residential housing systems run water for this reason - it doesn't get turned off and if it leaks, it's only water. If it does get turned off, then the system would need to be drained. This is common for mtn retreat homes that may be empty for months at a time. My g/f's parents do this for their farm house.



However, the industrial chilled water systems the company I work for designs runs a glycol mix similar to what you put in a truck. Of course, it would have to be a closed-loop system.



I work for a client that uses on-site pond water for supplemental cooling that is not run during the Winter. Roof mounted air-handling units equiped for this are drained every Fall. We will also sometimes install pumps to circulate the water in cooling coils to prevent freezing.



If someone filled a garage in-floor heating system with straight water, they didn't read the instructions.



I've toyed with installing slab heating for my driveway and sidewalk when I have them redone. It would be a closed loop with gylcol run through a small electric water heater & expansion tank with a circulating pump. I hate shoveling snow and my driveway nad sidewalk are not long enough to justify a snowblower. :-laf
 
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Actually a lot of in floor heating is going to alcohol/water mixes, almost as good as glycol but doesn't ruin the environment.

Nobody where I live in the cold north would even think of running straight water, due to the fact that water boils at too low of a temperature and you end up with a lot of air in the lines over time, and if power ever went out or the NG or propane stopped flowing you would have a big cost to fix the system.
 
Don't a lot of people use the flexible PEX lines for radiant heat? Those lines can allegedly handle being frozen solid...



I wouldn't run straight water - I'd use some sort of antifreeze in it. Most hydronic systems have a valve (sorry, can't think of the technical term) that allows air in the system to self-bleed. Every household forced hot water system I ever saw back when I lived in New England had one. Steam systems don't need them... about all you have to do with those is make sure the boiler is full. :)



The insurance company we have now on that house is a REALLY small outfit that caters to farmers. The bigger outfits wouldn't insure the place since it had some nasty old outbuildings - those are now leveled thanks to the Dodge. :)



I like the waste oil heater idea. I could run diesel, heating oil, WVO, biodiesel, waste oil, etc. Nice.



Thanks,



Matt
 
HoleshotHolset said:
Don't a lot of people use the flexible PEX lines for radiant heat? Those lines can allegedly handle being frozen solid...



I'd say that generally all in-slab radiant heat is done with PEX now. There were some houses around here that were built back in the 50's with copper tubing, but very few are still operational. While the tubing in the slab is PEX, there will still be some hard-piping at the manifold which could suffer freeze-damage. Personally, I wouldn't chance it.
 
In floor heat here, PEX rocks!!! Did it all myself after studying about 5 books. Looking back, would have went with more pumps, instead of zone valves and one pump, but is working fine.



Hot air blows. (hehehe)Never again, hot water boiler only, until something better comes out.



How big of lot do you have Matt?



Make your big door 14' wide if there is room. You'd be surprised how tight a 12 foot door gets.



I like the permposts yo hoot posted.



However,renting a mini excavator, pouring a footer, and then coming out of the ground is not that much more work. You can get cement block seconds for about half price.
 
14' wide door sounds big - how high should I go? I'd like to be able to work on big tractors and big rigs. :) (Even though this will probably NEVER happen... )



The lot is 3 acres - which is pretty big for city folk like us, but we have dreams of owning about 100 acres someday. I created a diagram - about the only thing that needs explanation is the machine shed. I tore that down, but wanted to illustrate where it was, etc.



The neighbor's pole barn (toy shed) is sweet - he claims it was ~$20K soup to nuts... but it has no heat/insulation/etc.



Thanks,



Matt
 
My main bay has a 14' ceiling, 12' high door, x14' wide. It was built to work on drilling rigs. It pretty much opens up the whole bay.



My friend built his garage, 60'x'80x16' with 14'HIGH x12' wide door. I set his trusses with a boom truck, and it was tight with the mirrors, if you weren't going straight in. I had to jockey around a few times, to get set where I wanted, and used up the whole doorway.



14' wide just gives you a lot of flexibility with the way things come in. Of course, if you have a 10' bay, it doesn't make any sense!!
 
I feel your pain Matt. I have been "building" my shop for almost two years now. I'm finally coming close to getting a floor plan nailed down. I am sure once its done there will be about a dozen things I will have wanted to do differently. I settled on a 4' frostwall foundation and 2x6 walls; shingled roof and vinyl sides. This has penciled out to be the most economical for my situation. But, I am only building a 32'x40'x11'6".

After a quick call to our insurance agent, we discovered our homeowners policy already has an outbuilding clause built in... up to $16,400. That will more than cover the structure. I was happy to hear that, and ****** at the same time. Great, the insurance wont go up, but on the other hand, I have been paying coverage on something that didnt exist. :confused: Taxes, that will be another story. :rolleyes:

Good luck,

Jim
 
Hey, Jim!

I take it your shop will be detached... ? 32'x40' sounds just about perfect for what I want... I know you have friends in the area down there that build houses and so forth - ask them if they want to do a job in Columbia County. :)



My wife asked the other day... "What were you thinking in terms of size of this garage? 3 cars wide and 5 cars deep?"



My reply - "Yeah - that ought to do it. " :cool:



Matt
 
Matt, heres some pics of my start to finished product. When I bought my property I didnt know I even had concrete out there but found it while pushing snow and knocking down weeds in December. By the first week of January I had all my materials here and started cleaning the footings off to start building. I finished it by mid April and the only help I had was setting the rafters. I also didnt use a single air nailer! It measures 26 wide by 52 long and has a 10 foot ceiling. I did all my own wiring and hired an electrician to trench power to the building and hook up my completely wired shop. I did studs 2 foot on center and the same with rafters. I layed 7/16 OSB inside and out and then hung Tyvek wrap and covered it with steel. I decided to do the roof shingles to give it a nicer appearance. I heat it with a 90,000 BTU LP furnace and a 4 ton central air unit. I insulated the walls with R-13 and I keep it at a steady 50 degrees all winter and Ive only used a small amount of LP the entire year. The floor isnt real warm but I try to avoid laying on it more than needed. The building has an overhead 9x9 door on each end which face east and west so it cools down fast on a cold windy day inside. In the summer the air hardly runs unless I open and close the OH doors alot. It stays comfortable on all but the worst of the humid days. I can get 2 quadcab longbox trucks in and have plenty of room to work around them if I dont clutter the place up with too many other projects. I would be happy to come out and give you a hand building something when you get ready. Ill be out to Janesville sometime this week yet and could take a look at your layout if you want me too.

Chris
 
My wife knows how important it is for me to have a shop... plus it will allow me to maintain the type of equipment necessary to support her equine hobby. :)



Chris: Thanks for the pictures - looks like the finished product turned out very well. The building site is about 1. 5 hours North of Janesville... so that is quite a bit out of your way. I also plan on doing almost all the wiring and anything else I can tackle - I definitely don't mind building sweat equity.



Jim: I'm curious as to why you're thinking of going with the 4' frost wall foundation... ? 4' sounds pretty high...



Thanks,



Matt
 
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