Here I am

Exxon caught red handed raping the public!!!!!!

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Wow!



What a turn around the discussion on this thread. Logic and facts do matter.



Oil hit a "record high" (gross number, published by doom & gloom press)yesterday of $72. 17 a barrel.



Adjusted for inflation, still not as high as it was with the oil imbargo of 1973.



The price per barrel needs to be about $80 to equal 1973 price.



Perhaps a definition of "adjusted for inflation" might be in order.



hehe.
 
Brent has hit fresh records in each of the last seven sessions as the loss of a quarter of Nigerian oil supply has tightened European markets more than the United States. , where crude stocks are at their highest level for nearly eight years.
 
john3976 said:
Duh, I don't under stand, could you please type slowwweerrrr.



As to those making money on how well the company is doing are playing the stock market game so if the market drops so does their retirement. Anyone can do the same thing on their own, a 401K is nothing more then an account for you to play stock broker with, the only difference is you can't touch the money without penalty until you are 59 1/2, or under a dire emergency of which only a hand full of reason qualify. The age may be higher for you I am not sure I am under highrisk employment so for me it would be 59 1/2. .
I guess you still don't understand. My company contributes $4. 50 in stock for every $6. 00 I contribute. That is a pretty big difference from a personal account over at e*trade and a critical reason that my retirement security (as I stated) is tied to my company's financial performance. Suffice it to say that my 401(k) has grown much more than my defined contribution pension which is drawing 6. 85% interest. If I didn't participate in my company's 401(k), I'd be walking away from free money!!



Insofar as bonuses are concerned, every employee in our company except those of us who are on other incentive plans such as MICP or SICP (management or sales incentive compensation plans, respectively) is eligible for a bonus based on EBITDA (earnings before interest, tax, depreciation and amortization). The 2005 EBITDA bonus was 6% of each employee's annual salary. MICP and SICP bonuses depended on individual and/or group performance, but the point is that every employee in our corporation has the opportunity to earn a bonus based on his/her division's performance.



On Edit: 59-1/2 is the hurdle age for access to tax-sheltered investments for just about anyone.



Rusty
 
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john3976 said:
Brent has hit fresh records in each of the last seven sessions as the loss of a quarter of Nigerian oil supply has tightened European markets more than the United States. , where crude stocks are at their highest level for nearly eight years.

john,



Do you want to know where the prices for crude oil and refined products are set? Take a look HERE. Do you see the term "nymex crude future", "nymex heating oil (#2 diesel less taxes) future", "nymex gasoline future", etc. ? NYMEX is the New York Merchantile Exchange where commodities traders set the price of crude oil and refined products - just like the Chicago Board of Trade sets prices for farm commodities. If you think the price of crude is going up, buy a futures contract to buy at the contract price on the contract expiration date - if you think it is going down, buy a futures contract to sell at the contract price on the contract expiration date. That's how the commodities traders are getting rich (or losing their shirt) as these markets set prices based on current and projected future supply, demand, environmental and political factors, wars and potential wars, etc.



Rusty
 
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And we wonder why fuel cost so much money?



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/16/AR2006041600098.html



Ex-Exxon CEO's Massive Pension Draws Fire



By STEVE QUINN

The Associated Press

Sunday, April 16, 2006; 9:20 AM



DALLAS -- A $69. 7 million compensation package and $98 million pension payout to Exxon Mobil Corp. 's former chief executive and chairman Lee R. Raymond has some shareholders and economists asking, "how much is enough?"



"Some folks will ask the question, 'Is this more evidence of big oil taking an enormous windfall and retaining all the riches?'" said Mel Fugate, assistant professor for Southern Methodist University's Cox School of Business.







Exxon Mobil Corp. Chairman and CEO Lee Raymond is shown in this May 2005 file photo. Under Mr. Raymond, the company's market value increased fourfold to $375 billion, overtaking BP as the largest oil company and General Electric as the largest American corporation. For his efforts, Raymond, who retired in December, was compensated more than $686 million from 1993 to 2005, according to an analysis done for The New York Times by Brian Foley, an independent compensation consultant. That is $144,573 for each day he spent leading Exxon's "God pod," as the executive suite at the company's headquarters in Irving, Tex. , is known. (AP Photo/Donna McWilliam) (Donna Mcwilliam - AP)



The Irving company has drawn criticism from politicians and economists for becoming the most profitable company in history _ at consumers' expense, they say.



Exxon benefited from high oil and natural gas prices and solid demand for refined products en route to earning $36 billion last year. The company has defended its profits, saying that other industries have larger profit margins but oil companies' bottom lines stand out because they operate on a much larger scale.



Recent news of Raymond's payout and pension is stoking embers Fugate said had been starting to die out. But with gasoline prices again reaching $3 a gallon at the pump in some areas and big oil companies about to report first-quarter earnings in coming weeks, expect more fallout, economists say.



On Wednesday, Exxon reported executive compensation in a regulatory filing that showed Raymond receiving $48. 5 million in salary, bonuses, incentive payments and stock awards.



His compensation package also included $21. 2 million from exercising stock options, which the company stopped awarding in 2001.



His $98 million pension payout reflects 43 years of service. But he would have received nearly $17 million less had he retired just last year, according to the company's 2005 proxy statement.



In this year's proxy statement, Exxon defended the package by saying it rewards Raymond's "outstanding leadership of the business, continued strengthening of our worldwide competitive position, and continuing progress toward achieving long-range strategic goals. " Raymond had been CEO since 1993 before stepping down at the end of last year.



Exxon added that Raymond's compensation is "appropriately positioned relative to CEOs of U. S. -based, integrated oil companies and other major U. S. -based corporations, particluarly in view of the long-term performance of the company and the substantial experience and expertise that Mr. Raymond has brought to the job. "



Last year, Chevron Corp. Chairman and CEO David O'Reilly received a $1. 55 million salary, $3. 5 million bonus and $3. 57 million in long-term compensation. He did not exercise any options, but owns options valued at just over $34 million, including exercisable options worth $28 million, according to Chevron's proxy.



Fugate, who specializes in executive compensation and management, said Exxon is sending a "very, very bad signal" by allowing Raymond to select the lump-sum payout.



"They are in very, very rich times, so on one hand they say, 'we can afford it,' but on the other hand they are taking an awful lot of heat because they've made too much at the expense of consumers. I'm surprised they are not being asked to justify that. "



They will be at the company's shareholders meeting in Dallas on May 31. Several shareholders have placed resolutions on the agenda that, if passed, would put the clamps on some executive pay.



Shareholder Emil Rossi, author of one of the resolutions, says that although he's done well as a longtime owner of Exxon stock, he believes the executives are keeping too much for themselves.



"(Raymond) took over a good company," said Rossi, of Boonville, Calif. "He didn't bring it out from being a bad company, so his pay is clean out of reason. It's not because of his smartness. "



Twice since November, big oil executives, including Raymond before his retirement, sat in Senate hearings defending their profits and deflecting accusations of gouging.
 
john,



I assume you'll be at the stockholders' meeting to vote your ExxonMobil shares in favor of the resolutions "clamping down" on executive compensation? Or will you be voting by proxy?



Rusty
 
RustyJC said:
john,



Do you want to know where the prices for crude oil and refined products are set? Take a look HERE. Do you see the term "nymex crude future", "nymex heating oil (#2 diesel less taxes) future", "nymex gasoline future", etc. ? NYMEX is the New York Merchantile Exchange where commodities traders set the price of crude oil and refined products - just like the Chicago Board of Trade sets prices for farm commodities. If you think the price of crude is going up, buy a futures contract to buy at the contract price on the contract expiration date - if you think it is going down, buy a futures contract to sell at the contract price on the contract expiration date. That's how the commodities traders are getting rich (or losing their shirt) as these markets set prices based on current and projected future supply, demand, environmental and political factors, wars and potential wars, etc.



Rusty



Rusty, I am convinced that john does not want to be TAUGHT anything about how the REAL WORLD works. Yourself and several others have given him concrete FACTS and UNDENIABLE information on why the markets are moving like they are.



But still he rants and raves like a broken democra... ... ... . record about Raymonds pension. To me this proves he is simply upset by the amount, but chooses to formulate the argument in a way to fit his PERCEPTION of what is happening. You know... ..... his own little world. The commodities markets are looking at least 5 to 8 months ahead for their prices.



Again, I think I could teach the neighbors cat to be a rocket scientist before convincing john that the price of oil and fuels are set by market forces, and pensions by board of directors and shareholders.



Jim
 
john3976 said:
As to the first part of your smart A*&^% reply, maybe she does not care how much gas costs, you ever stop to think about that? nope I did not think you did.
Gaawwwllllyyyyy Sarge, I think I finally got it! :rolleyes:



Wasn't that the original question I posted before you went on your 'she can't afford a new car' rant? Let me retype slowly for you - "Am I supposed to sympathize with her (a member of the 'working man' class) too if she doesn't care (about the price of gas) herself?" (Go ahead and look back - we'll wait for you) Guess you finally figured it out. Keep working on the reading comprehension while you still have some credibility left. :-laf
 
Getting it

john3976 said:
You still don't get it, it is not about the Government going in and taking the money Exxon just gave him, it is about Exxon being a responsible company and reinvesting in the company and keeping prices as low as is profitable.



It is clear that is not in the Exxon corporate papers, they seem to want to rape all of us and then hand out 400 million dollar pay outs while working class America is struggling to fill the tank each week.



No one has said the government should step in and and take way anyones money, but Exxon has acted very irresponsible with this pay out.



Exxon just rubbed everyones nose in the mud and said what are you going to do about it? In the mean time they are raising prices even farther and are projected to make yet another record quarter of profits.



I again ask you how much is enough? how much money is enough?



Yes, John, I get it. I agree that $400 million is too much. It's obscene! It's greedy for one person to accept that much. The point I am trying to make is, what would you do about it?



But first let me point out that the rich ******* who got that golden parachute served his investors very well. He gave them a good return on their money, which is what he was hired to do.



Now, I repeat my question to you: You're suddenly God or President for Life. What would you do about it that would not set a precedent and/or destroy initiative in this country of ours?
 
Jeremiah said:
Now, I repeat my question to you: You're suddenly God or President for Life. What would you do about it that would not set a precedent and/or destroy initiative in this country of ours?
He's got no credible answer. He's just on a blind rage rant.
 
I'm sensing a lot of anger and hostility on John's part. :-{} More than the current price of gas or diesel should be responsible for. :confused: Let's hold hands and get in touch with our inner feelings. :-laf
 
They say they still have oil platforms and refineries down from the hurricanes. It’s been over six months since the hurricanes. If they wanted them fixed they would have been fixed months ago. It would’ve looked like ants on a piece of candy. The whole thing is they don’t want them running. They made record profits while running at a fraction of their normal output. If they made the same profit on a gallon of whatever, no matter how much they produce, then they would WANT to produce more.



What if the electric companies operated on this same principle? Oil is as much of a need as electricity. Humanity has survived a lot longer without electricity than it has oil or fuel. Government regulates the electric companies and keeps them from operating on this same principle and I haven’t been sent a “Commy Club” membership card yet. The country will shutdown just the same whether you stop electricity or fuel. Matter of fact, it would probably shut down quicker if you stopped the supply of fuel. My family can function without electricity, but if I can’t get back and forth to work we’ll starve to death.



I have another question……. I wonder how much TOTAL profit is made off of 1 barrel of oil? :eek:

  • How much does the person that owns the oil or owns the property the oil is drawn from make?
  • How about the person getting it out of the ground?
  • The person who transports it to the refinery?
  • The person who owns the refinery?
  • The person that distributes the refined fuel?
  • And finally the person who sells the fuel?

Gets kind of mind boggling doesn’t it? Now, how about the same question with electricity? Ooh………………………. ? :rolleyes:



Scott
 
Supply & Demand

Hey folks, Hope you dont think I am trying to stir the pot. Understand that Exxon is meerly in a place to take advantage of a greater issue. That issue is that China is the largest competitor for commodities than any other country has been in the past. More oil, copper, gold ,silver etc . etc. is being purchased by China in its recent entry into industrialization and consumerism. Unfortunately, there is not an infinite amount of anything. If you use IT you are subject to supply and demand and the related pricing structure. Hope this helps. Greg
 
BigPapa said:
They say they still have oil platforms and refineries down from the hurricanes. It’s been over six months since the hurricanes. If they wanted them fixed they would have been fixed months ago.
You might want to do a little Googling. How many platforms were sunk and are unsalvagable? How many are still undergoing rebuild? What are the leadtimes on the equipment necessary to rebuild a production platform?



BigPapa said:
Government regulates the electric companies and keeps them from operating on this same principle and I haven’t been sent a “Commy Club” membership card yet.
Most states have deregulated electric utilities to some degree. The difference is - you have one set of electric lines running to your house while you have any number of filling stations to choose from.



Rusty
 
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LOL, you think I am all upset, I don't give a rats rear end if they want to raise the cost of a stinking gallon of diesel fuel to 30 dollars a gallon, I can still afford to buy it, You have offered no credible answers to the high cost of fuel, when you have investment firms and professors in the press saying the only reason for such high profits is greed, then you lose my little uninformed sheep.



You only offer what you are spoon fed from the Big Oil companies.



I hope the price of fuel balloons this summer to a good hard to swallow 8. 50 to 9. 75 a gallon so Exxon can make four times or five time last years profit, what will you be singing then?



Now you want to know what pisses me off, it is having to watch my children and grand children getting raped by Big Oil, those who are just starting out in life who can least afford to pay for this jerk from Exxon's BS retirement package.



By the way there are investors with Exxon who are against the retirement package, yet Exxon is stumping hard to try and stomp out those who are not in agreement with the overly inflated retirement package.



How many American jobs have been lost because of people like the CEO from Exxon, because of their multi million dollar salaries? There was a time when the top guy made about 30% more then the rank and file, the profits were put back into the company not the CEO's pocket book, but now CEO's are making up-wards of 95,000% more then the rank and file.



Think of the person making $50,000 dollars a year and the CEO of Exxon made 100,000% ($50,050,000) more income then did the man who makes the wheels of the company turn each day. Oh yeah and this is still low because the Exxon CEO made over $51,000,000 last year. How do you justify that. Are you trying to tell me that the same CEO would not have tried to make the company profitable if his pay was down to only 30 to 40% of the rank and file?



Can you really sit there with a straight face and say that it is right for the CEO to make 100,000% more then the rank and file?



Come on, get real, if these people were paid accordingly to the old standards, we would not be shipping all of our jobs over seas, and the cost of American made products would be very affordable, Now I know this would be basic math for you and your pie in the sky wants, but this greed is tearing this nation apart, My retirement is set, I am going to be taken care of, but my kids and their kids are not so sure.



This country is in big trouble if we have to assume production of needed goods again, the American people have become nothing more then a bunch of people with skills barely good enough to get them a job where they say "would you like fries with that?".



I am sorry that you are so blind and can not see that we can not keep striping away the very fabric that built America into the strongest nation in the world, but I don't really see much of a future left for this country with views like the last few posters have.



Sounds more like each of you are ones who want to luck into a job like that were you get to walk away with millions of dollars for really not doing anything more important then the guy who comes to work each day and passes out the mail or mops the floor, let alone the guy in the field doing the real work that turns the profit each day.
 
john3976 said:
No one is saying that company's should not be allowed to make a profit as long as that profit is fair and reasonable.





Big oil executives should be brought up on criminal charges for their mismanagement of these obscene profits that have done nothing but cost every day Americans more money out of their pocket for a product that is in no way improved or better then in years past.





But, that would be WalMart, and everybody is ****** at them too. Seems if somebody owns a successfull business we want to take it away from them...



Merrick
 
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