Factory Brake Controller ?

[BrianJ]

I don't do ANY research on Furd or Government Motors trucks. I have ZERO interest in owning one and no interest in reading about them. Your reference above is the first information I have read about GM/Delphi's brake controller other than opinions expressed by owners which are usually incorrect.

If you don't care to own or do the reasearch on Ford or Chevy, and have zero interest in owning one, how do you KNOW that an owner with first hand experience is wrong. You sure seem to be very interested in Ford and Chevy since you are usually one of the first to comment in a Ford or Chevy related thread or topic. Heaven forbid anyone say anything positive about either, you act and post as though it's an insult to your manhood. But guess what, when it comes down to facts, is looks as though Ford has a leg up on the competition (including Dodge) with their command control system.



If you truly could care less, and don't care to do the research or get first hand knowledge before you post, one would think you would avoid such topics and not post at all.

 

[HBarlow]

If you don't care to own or do the reasearch on Ford or Chevy, and have zero interest in owning one, how do you KNOW that an owner with first hand experience is wrong. You sure seem to be very interested in Ford and Chevy since you are usually one of the first to comment in a Ford or Chevy related thread or topic. Heaven forbid anyone say anything positive about either, you act and post as though it's an insult to your manhood. But guess what, when it comes down to facts, is looks as though Ford has a leg up on the competition (including Dodge) with their command control system.

If you truly could care less, and don't care to do the research or get first hand knowledge before you post, one would think you would avoid such topics and not post at all.

I'll send a pm to Steve St. Laurents right away and ask if I must have your permission to post. If not I guess I'll continue posting whatever I please as I always have. As an alternative you might choose not to read my posts if you don't like what I post.

Yeah, right. I suggest you run right out to your nearest Furd dealer and buy a Furd if you like them.

I frequently make fun of Furds and Govt. Motors products for the primary reason that they are not even in competition with a Cummins-powered Dodge Ram. Many TDR members apparently own and drive Dodges but don't seem to understand that. Furds and GMs use a V8 diesel which is basically an automotive engine, nowhere near the towing/hauling motor that a Cummins is.

If and when Furd and GM offer an inline six cylinder diesel in their Class II, III, IV, and V trucks like Dodge does then come back and talk to me about the advantages of a GM or Furd.

I pulled RVs commercially for three years running hundeds of thousands of miles. I talked with many other transporters, saw their Furds broken down on the highways, heard their sad stories of Furds that completely broke them financially and put them out of business. I also rode in a couple of GM/Izuzus with 300k miles on the odometers like my '01 Dodge had. They were completely used up junk compared to my ordinary old Dodge Ram 3500.

If you use a diesel light truck as a grocery getter and work commuter vehicle or for occasionally towing a relatively light trailer a Furd or GM will be acceptable. Not for high mileage heavy towing day after day. There is no comparison betwee either the Furd or GM and a Dodge platform.

 

[HBarlow]

Harvey, I've watched you make offhanded comments, cheap shots, and snide remarks to me and other members for months. You never seem to miss a chance to tell somebody they're wrong. Even when you may be wrong yourself. Your stupid little comments that only you think are cute are annoying. So, since I had about 20 minutes to kill and the debate about how brake controllers in GM and Ford work has been going on so long, I took the time to research it.

Everytime I or somebody else expressed an opinion about them you were quick to make some comment saying GM and Ford don't work that way, etc. When another member posted some info he felt to be correct, you ridiculed and made fun of him.

Making fun of others such as you did, especially when you are the one who is wrong, struck a nerve with me. So I responded and backed my claims up with proof, with the hope of ending the arguement and prevent you from making fun of other members regarding this subject.

Sounds to me like your problem is actually that you can't stand for anyone to disagree with you and seem to become outraged if someone does.

I wrote something like "I'm not buying that. " If you view that a personal afront to your dignity that is your problem.

It is you, still you, who is engaging in personal attacks and name calling. Grow up and try to get over it. I will continue to post as I wish.

 

[Powder Extreme]

No harvey I have no problem admitting when I am wrong. But when I am not wrong and somebody who is clueless keeps telling me I am wrong, I will take the necessary steps to prove I am right. Especially when its concerning information other members want to know.

If this is strictly between me and you, I could care less about how much witless banter you want to post. I'm perfectly capable of ignoring you. But when other members want to know Let's get the facts straight.

 

[BrianJ]

... I'll continue posting whatever I please as I always have... I frequently make fun of Furds and Govt. Motors products...

At least you admit that you basically are no better than an interwebz troll by posting simply to incite and inflame, with no basis for fact or usefull information (which you obviously can't have since you are above researching and learning about anything but what the grand pooba HB believes in).

Yeah, right. I suggest you run right out to your nearest Furd dealer and buy a Furd if you like them.

I could care less what the badge on my tailgate says, I simply buy what I deem at the time to be the best solution for my needs and wants. When I bought back in 2004 it was the Ram CTD. Searching today, it very well could be something different. I don't get my panties in a ruff when someone mentions Dodge/Ford/Chevy/Import, they ALL have their advantages and disadvantages. You obviously care more than you lead on since you can't leave the topics alone. In managing and dealing with people over the years, I have found that those who tend to critize things outside their "box" the most are generally the ones with the most insecurity and unhappiness with what they have in their life.

I pulled RVs commercially for three years running hundeds of thousands of miles. I talked with many other transporters, saw their Furds broken down on the highways, heard their sad stories of Furds that completely broke them financially and put them out of business.

So on a site of 38,000+ members (several hundred active at any time), you are the only one with experience driving/towing/hauling/maintaining/servicing diesel pick-em-ups? I guess we all must bow to the omnipotent master of the universe, Mr. HB, with his bountiful base of knowledge and wisdom. Surely no one else has any useful exerience or first hand knowledge of such machinery?!? Quite the contrary, it's assinine how quick you are to condensend others when they try to help with their first hand knowledge. You readily admint you don't care to, or more to the point WONT research the correct information, yet shoot down someone like Craiggo with first hand knowledge from his own truck. Or myself who at least TRIES to find information and pulls from a relatively reliable site such as Wiki, or a certainly reliable site such as the Ford Commercial Builders site.



As far as tranporters out of business, the three people I know personally out of business all had fleets of CTD's. Surely fuel prices, the economy, and changes in the industry didn't contribute to the demise of those you mention.





Bottom line is you're right that I could choose to ignore your pompous and condensending posts, or choose to take my CTD forum business elsewhere. That being said, I have been a member here a fairly long time, maybe not as long as you and I certainly don't post as much... better to be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt... but the degree to which your inflamatory comments are permiating the current activity on this board is getting very old. Here is where I could choose to ignore, but it's an all to common theme these days and I hate to see it affect the site and membership. And second bottom line is it's really a shame, because on many topics (towing/hauling for one) you have a lot of knowledge to offer. Too bad the other posts leave such a bad taste that it's hard to respect the good ones.

 

[Powder Extreme]

At least you admit that you basically are no better than an interwebz troll by posting simply to incite and inflame, with no basis for fact or usefull information (which you obviously can't have since you are above researching and learning about anything but what the grand pooba HB believes in).









I could care less what the badge on my tailgate says, I simply buy what I deem at the time to be the best solution for my needs and wants. When I bought back in 2004 it was the Ram CTD. Searching today, it very well could be something different. I don't get my panties in a ruff when someone mentions Dodge/Ford/Chevy/Import, they ALL have their advantages and disadvantages. You obviously care more than you lead on since you can't leave the topics alone. In managing and dealing with people over the years, I have found that those who tend to critize things outside their "box" the most are generally the ones with the most insecurity and unhappiness with what they have in their life.









So on a site of 38,000+ members (several hundred active at any time), you are the only one with experience driving/towing/hauling/maintaining/servicing diesel pick-em-ups? I guess we all must bow to the omnipotent master of the universe, Mr. HB, with his bountiful base of knowledge and wisdom. Surely no one else has any useful exerience or first hand knowledge of such machinery?!? Quite the contrary, it's assinine how quick you are to condensend others when they try to help with their first hand knowledge. You readily admint you don't care to, or more to the point WONT research the correct information, yet shoot down someone like Craiggo with first hand knowledge from his own truck. Or myself who at least TRIES to find information and pulls from a relatively reliable site such as Wiki, or a certainly reliable site such as the Ford Commercial Builders site.



As far as tranporters out of business, the three people I know personally out of business all had fleets of CTD's. Surely fuel prices, the economy, and changes in the industry didn't contribute to the demise of those you mention.





Bottom line is you're right that I could choose to ignore your pompous and condensending posts, or choose to take my CTD forum business elsewhere. That being said, I have been a member here a fairly long time, maybe not as long as you and I certainly don't post as much... better to be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt... but the degree to which your inflamatory comments are permiating the current activity on this board is getting very old. Here is where I could choose to ignore, but it's an all to common theme these days and I hate to see it affect the site and membership. And second bottom line is it's really a shame, because on many topics (towing/hauling for one) you have a lot of knowledge to offer. Too bad the other posts leave such a bad taste that it's hard to respect the good ones.

X2! Well said and well written.

 

[SPucillo]

So, as I'm getting ready to head out for my first tow with the new truck, has anyone figured out just what the Dodge integrated brake controller is? Is it a ramped time-based controller, an inertial controller or ????



I'm fully expecting to come back disappointed and am prepared to place my order for a MaxBrake system when I get home. Shoulda kept my Jordan Ultima 2020 from my 2002, I guess.



Rusty

It is definitely not a ramped controller. Mine behaves like it is monitoring the brake pressure and vehicle speed.



It has a feature that when slowing for a stop light the trailer brakes turn off so when the light turns green and you let off the pedal there is no unloading of the hitch and the corresponding jerk that my F250 has. It has the timed ramp type controller.



I have only one complaint, when stopping on a hill when I hit about 3mph the trailer braking force goes to zero, regardless of the gain setting. I have a steep driveway and it takes a lot of force on the pedal to hold the 35ft trailer, truck and creep from the auto transmission while my wife gets out to closes the gates.



If it were an inertial controller I would think going down hill would increase the braking and that is not happening on my truck.



I am happy enough with this controller to not what anything else.

 

[Powder Extreme]

It is definitely not a ramped controller. Mine behaves like it is monitoring the brake pressure and vehicle speed.



It has a feature that when slowing for a stop light the trailer brakes turn off so when the light turns green and you let off the pedal there is no unloading of the hitch and the corresponding jerk that my F250 has. It has the timed ramp type controller.



I have only one complaint, when stopping on a hill when I hit about 3mph the trailer braking force goes to zero, regardless of the gain setting. I have a steep driveway and it takes a lot of force on the pedal to hold the 35ft trailer, truck and creep from the auto transmission while my wife gets out to closes the gates.



If it were an inertial controller I would think going down hill would increase the braking and that is not happening on my truck.



I am happy enough with this controller to not what anything else.

Spucillo is right, it's definitely not a ramped controller. I haven't been able to find any evidence of hydraulic pressure monitoring and it feels just like the old inertia based controllers. My guess is that it's a variation of the inertia style.

 

[AHarris]

Tomorrow I'll see how it does with my 9K trailer when I take it on a quick test tow tomorrow with the new 2500. I hope to not be disappointed. Don't care what methodology it uses, as long as it gets the job done. I do hope it works as good as the $90 Draw Tite controller I had in my 2007 3500 which worked just fine for a towing "amateur" like me, but probably seen as a low end unit compared to the esoteric Brakesmart, Prodigy or Maxbrake units mentioned by the towing gurus in this thread.

I'll pass on my "family camper" observations on how it performs.

 

[RustyJC]

Just got back from the first trip. The factory controller seemed to do OK - not that different from my previous Jordan Ultima 2020 that sensed brake pedal position. We'll see if this changes on upcoming trips.



Rusty

 

[AHarris]

Did the test tow today with my camper (9K# loaded) and the factory brake controller worked like a champ. Braking on the trailer was a lot more progressive and in sync with the truck brakes than the aftermarket controller I had on my previous truck. I don't see any reason to upgrade--the factory controller in my Ram on works just fine for the kind of towing I will do.

 

[domehead]

As stated before if you towing light the OEM controller should work ok. If you start towing heavy thats when it will not apply enougn amps to the trailer wheels to lock them down or slow you down.



What is heavy in my book is anything six tons or more.

 

[RustyJC]

I'm towing a 16,000 lb GVWR RV, and as I noted, the factory controller on my 2011 seemed to work acceptably on our run this past weekend. I was running at a gain setting of 8. 0. I never felt like the trailer was leading the truck under braking, nor did I feel the trailer pushing the truck.



Rusty

 

[BurlesonR]

I just got back from my first towing trip and have to say, I like the brake controller so far. Now, I wasn't loaded as heavy as I usually am. I was probably around 8 to 9k with the trailer and Jeep loaded and the controller worked better than my old Prodigy. After experimenting a little, I settled on a setting of 8. 0. This controller is defiantly not an inertia type. It directly correlates with brake pedal pressure. I also feel like it "learns" how to react in relation to the driver and load. With the family and the Jeep loaded, I drove pretty easy and the trailer brakes were not very aggressive. Last night I loaded the trailer with a few logs and my 48" excavator bucket to pull around for break-in. This morning I drove to work aggressively. A lot of full throttle then closed throttle driving (to load then unload/cool the pistons and rings). This put me hard on the brakes and and after a few miles of this kind of driving behavior the trailer brakes became more aggressive. The whole truck is "smart" and the integrated trailer brake controller is no exception. For me, this new truck is taking a little bit to get used to, but the more I drive it, the more I like it! So far the controller gets a thumbs up from me!



I'm going to drag this trailer around for most of the week and hook to the 5er in a few weekends. I'll see how it does with stopping that 17-18k.

 

[stick]

Never tried the controller, it won't work with my disc brakes, but the brakesmart sure does! We just pulled from Utah to Oklahoma for the winter. The truck seemed a little gutless pulling up into Flagstaff, compared to my 03 6 speed, but the 03 is boosted. I think it's just a matter of me getting use to the auto, and how to use it to down shift and keep the RPM's up.



Stick

 

[BurlesonR]

Never tried the controller, it won't work with my disc brakes, but the brakesmart sure does! We just pulled from Utah to Oklahoma for the winter. The truck seemed a little gutless pulling up into Flagstaff, compared to my 03 6 speed, but the 03 is boosted. I think it's just a matter of me getting use to the auto, and how to use it to down shift and keep the RPM's up.



Stick

That's pretty much where I am. I've never had a CTD in the auto flavor before and it's a whole nother animal compared to the 6 speed manual I'm used too. I'm trying to leave it in D with tow/haul and EB engaged and let it do it's thing. It does feel a bit "doggy" at times, but I think it's the smoothness that makes it feel that way... If you stop and think about how fast it gets you up to highway speed compared to shifting through the gears with the manual, it's no dog! You also have to keep in mind the low RPM torque of the Cummins and the fact that the auto is programed to lug down and utilize it. I'm confident that any dissatisfaction I might have in choosing the auto will dissipate with seat time (experience).

 

[AHarris]

Wow... 8. 0 setting. I had mine at 3. 5 and it seemed to work fine. But it sounds like I'm towing light compared you guys.