Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Factory ECM has fast idle option in cold weather

[EdK]

Surprise Surprise!!!

I checked with my local Dodge dealer about the "fast idle" upgrade and he knew nothing about it!!! Good thing I had my latest TDR copy with me... but he still didn't know anything about it... thought maybe it wasn't approved for all years yet (do you smell B. S. ?)



Can a Cummins shop do this?



Thanks,



EdK

 

[DFormstone]

Unbelievable!

You would think that DC could figure this out after all they wrote the software. Is it possible the only engineer at DC that knows anything is the one that wrote the program? Maybe he quit and is now working for the competition.

My local dealer (service manager) informed me that DC has had this software for 3 years and only released it recently. Now we know why!

 

[David_VT]

Calling 'Dr.' Marco... Calling 'Dr.' Marco

Ok,

How about the TDR using some of it's membership resources to figure this out...



Marco, You still with us? I know you've figured out how to tear into the ECM, maybe you can figure out how to make this darn upgrade work???





D

 

[Mschevey]

Fooling the sensor.

I was thinking of this last night too. Over on the thread going on with the bad/dirty IAT (intake air temp) sensor. They have some resistance values of the sensor at specific temperatures listed. (I will try to find that post, if anyone has these number please post here or send to me incase I can’t find them. )

If the problem is the grid heaters causing the IAT to tell the idle up feature not to work, then by removing the plug from the IAT sensor and hooking up to a appropriate resistance (say resistance for 25*), the system should work. If when you start the engine with this fixed resistance the idle up feature works, problem found, solution to be worked on. If this works a resistance could be tried that would be appropriate for the IAT sensor at 0*. (Well below the 15* required for 3 cylinder option. )

The engine could not be operated like this for more that a few minutes for testing, because the IAT sensor tells the ECM what fuel ratios to use, and leaving the fixed resistor would kill fuel mileage, and not be good for VP44.



Any feedback on this…?



Mike

 

[thepitts]

Cummins calls back

After Jerry @ Cummins talked with an enginer, he called me with the following info. As long as the grid heaters are working the air temp is heated to 100 degs, the fast idle will not kick in. He said to test it unhook the grid heaters and try it. But they though it would have to get below 0 for the system to kick in with the grid heaters working.



So it looks like if you want a fast idle then buy the system from PS



p. s. My cousin who works for Cummins buys a Duramax, I think I am going to be sick

 

[David_VT]

We have a good vehicle, this is a DC cummins problem

I hear the marching of unhappy campers.



I agree that this is real frustrating since we all are so passionate about our trucks.



For most of us this is just another pot hole in the road between DC and Cummins. Somebody had a good idea and somebody else decided to cut corners on educating the dealers on it's proper installation,warranty coverage and proper operation.



Putting that aside, we still have the best engine in the small truck market and we still have a pretty good looking truck wrapped around it!!



Now, we just need to find the proper pressure point within DC and Cummins and apply enough pressure to get this resolved before spring!



Chin up! Let's go get them!! ARGGGGG!!!!!!!



========

Now if Mercedes comes along in the near future and demonstrates that prototype 3500 in Germany with the MB engine as having the high idle feature, then we know who planted this flawed TSB in the DC pipeline!!

 

[PKozlowski]

COLD WX

David_VT, Even after all my complaining

I MUST agree with you...

 

[Mschevey]

I also agree Great engine, Good truck. Just wish their was a little more cooperation.



I thought of another way to test the IAT sensor thing to see if that is really the cause of our problem. I am getting a new one, based on information on the other thread. The next time it is cold enough for this to work I will unplug from the one in the engine and conect to the new. I will then start the engine and see if the idle up feature kicks in.



Just another idea... ??



Mike

 

[Ray Torresdal]

industrial option

Most of these engines used in ag equipment and industrial equipment don't have the grid heaters. The idle feature probably works perfectly with them??? Just a thought. Ray

 

[Spaceace]

I agree

After reading the TSB and every post here. I agree the grid heaters are disengaging the program. It states IAT not OAT. The grid heaters are turned on after sensing air already in the manifold.



You can't have condition one (with them on) unless you are using 100% of the grid heater Btus.



Maybe this is a safety net for a failed grid heaters in an unattended vehicle?



Just a thought...

 

[Shelby Griggs]

Someone with cold weather try this

OK, the grid heaters cycle off after you reach 20 MPH, or was it 18 MPH? Anyway if it is below freezing, it seems if you started up, drove a short piece to kick off the heaters, then stopped and put the parking brake on, you would meet the requirements to engage. At that point the IAT will be close to OAT, the water temp will be below the 140° and so on. It would seem to me that this would take the grid heater IAT problem out of the equation, and you should then have a high idle. I am looking at the conditions I just described as much as or more than the initial function. In my job (surveyor), I sometimes have a lot of stop and go driving on a project with idle time at low temps.



If it was cold enough I would try the experiment, but so far hasn't really been cold here. It will probably need to be around 20° or so for the test to work, to offset any residual heating as the air is compressed and makes its way around to the IAT sensor.



Shelby

 

[Red Express]

I had dodge put the upgrade in my ecm after I told them about the tsb... . (The service wrighter should be a bag boy at the grocere store!!!) Hope it works. . I'll report back asap

 

[MidwestMotorman]

the fuses

Why not just remove the fuses powering the intake heaters? I think the fuel filter canister heater works the same time as the grid heaters, and this may be lost too. I would much rather pull a fuse than try unplugging and replugging in sensors. I do not see any problems with a cold start, heaters disabled, unless the temps fall below -10* (Yes, it does get that cold in Iowa. Usually -20 to -30* sometime during the winter. )

 

[Bad340fish]

Shelby, the truck will just start cycling the grids again. I have gotten off the highway to refuel before and had them kick on while fueling if I left the truck running and it was cold enough outside. I think the 20MPH deal is just to make sure they don't stay on while your driving and making enough engine heat as it is.

Just my . 02

Clark

 

[Turboman]

Service man said was for autos only(idiot!)

Got my 02 6 spd today, wanted them to flash it before I got there. They said automatics only, I said b*&^sh#@!, then they sais my VIN # didn't come up that it needed it. So I said forget it. I just thought it would be a neat thing to have. Oh well screw 'em.

 

[David_VT]

Cummins PowerMaster reply

OK, posted below without edit. (note, thanks to PowerMaster for getting back to me)

=========================================

Summary: NEEDS CUMMINS ATTENTION ASAP!!



Details:

Thanks again David for getting back with us on this issue. Let me tell you what we've done, and what

WE CAN'T DO to resolve this issue. One caution is that we may not be able to provide the "constructive feedback"

you are looking for, i. e. : the solution to the problem.



1. first of all, we do not necessarily get the "first word" on Dodge software changes - and this was the case in our

earliest reply, which didn't address the issue at all.



2. upon investigation, we learned of the feature and that there were some problems; but we also learned that this

is totally a "Dodge deal" ... i. e. : TO BEGIN WITH, it's their feature, there service tool and their electronic control

module runs the Bosch pump on our engine.



3. one of our guys took his TurboDiesel to Dodge and had the "feature" successfully implemented; another tried,

and it would NOT successfully implement, though the service tool was the same ... . our Dodge account rep

believes this to be a totally Dodge software problem, and not a technical issue for Cummins at all - we agree.



4. we tried accessing the TDR link, but this is for members only ... we will join or renew to have a look, but think that

we will learn nothing to contradict the above; we have only had your email, one other and two calls ..... this is

a fairly new feature or few are implementing/requesting it (as yet) we suppose; may be more problems than we know of.



5. all of our customer feedback, such as your comments, have been forwarded to Dodge via our account rep.



6. based on what we know about the feature, and looking into things like, "will the air intake preheater override

the feature" and other possible system-level failure modes, we believe that the feature is not working in your case;

now, you may say, "no kidding" ... but it's possible for the feature to work and, for example, you might have a

faulty sensor; you mentioned no check engine light and you are clear about the temperature conditions, etc.



7. Dodge needs to resolve this; they buy our engine without electronic controls and without warranty; we can flag

our customers' input to the via our account rep - as we have done - but it's their deal: their controls, their software,

their service tool, their service tool software, their warranty, their feature ... their issue.



8. Wish we could help, and it is a good feature when working; heavy-duty engines use it all the time to keep the

engine/cab warm while not letting the injectors cool and carbon develop, etc.



9. I hope this response makes you feel like you've at least been heard. We searched the database for all of

your emails and our previous communication, and only found one communication "glitch" - and that is when one

of us responded without realizing there was such a feature (we were not officially informed).



10. We thank you for your input in flagging this issue and hope the Dodge folks get it resolved for you soon ...

sometimes it takes awhile to get to the "root cause" of such problems, and that's an issue with introducing

software "fixes" anytime. (My PC here is never quite 'right'!! - and I have to struggle with it everyday)



Sincerely, and thanking you for your patience, Cummins Powermaster



=========================

OK, so no fix here but they were interested and even had one of their guys get the upgrade so as to try and understand it!

 

[PKozlowski]

This will make you wonder

I just copied this from the Cummins web site

So I really wonder who IS making the electronics for our trucks?

Phord ?



Read 2nd line, 2nd paragraph. .



Dodge Ram has always been a leader in fuel economy, and we're working to make it even better. We didn't stop with the horsepower and torque - the maintenance intervals are longer too! Now you can run up to 15,000 miles between fuel filter changes and 7,500 miles before replacing the oil filter. The engine meets every 2000 Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and California Air Resource Board (CARB) emissions standard without a catalyst or Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR).



How did we make all these improvements? First, the Bosch VP44 electronic fuel pump that uses a Cummins-developed electronic timing and fueling control to rev up power and performance and eliminate acceleration smoke! There's four valves per cylinder. The 24-valve cylinder head increases engine airflow, improving low-speed performance. The head also features vertical and centered fuel injectors, boosting combustion efficiency, cleanliness and fuel economy. Next, we serve up electronic technology designed to give you the information you need to keep your engine running smooth.



From advanced diagnostics to complete power train monitoring systems - Cummins electronics are your key to engine protection and solid, day-to-day performance! The power is extended to 3200 rpm. Now, you get peak torque from 1600 to 2700 rpm, allowing you to use it over a wide range of operating conditions. You owe yourself a closer look at the features Cummins offers you - powerful advantages brought to you by the established market leader.

 

[MidwestMotorman]

RIGHT ON!!!

Nice to hear that someone is indeed interested in our plight. Too bad they did not link in with the TDR.



But, I don't know if we want the right hand knowing what the left hand does to their Cummins engines in our trucks...

 

[JyRO]

???

Why don't someone who's had this reflash just disconnect their grid heater and see if this idle up feature will work?



- JyRO

 

[jtisdale]

DUH!!!

Now I know why mine won't work!!!! The dealer performed TSB18-015-00. It is clearly written on the sticker on the radiator support. But I am still confused, in the last TDR issue 34 the high idle start is listed as 18-31-1 not 18-019-01. What gives? Either way, I got the wrong one. Better check yours too... .