Fence Recommendations

[rbattelle]

My first big project this spring (if spring ever arrives) will be a fence in my back yard. It will need to "tie in" to neighbor fences on either side of the property. I'm talking about a simple picket-type fence, not a privacy fence. The neighbors have wood picket fences.



I'm looking for something strong, and low maintenance. Anyone have any experience with aluminum fencing? I like the way this looks.



I'm not good with asthetics... do I need to match the fence style to the neighbors fences (both have a different style)?



My wife is not excited about running aluminum fence if the neighbors both have wood. Would doing something like that be a "no-no"?



Any recommendations would be much appreciated.



-Ryan

 

[AMink]

Have you looked at plastic fencing? It comes in everything from 3 rail ranch style to picket. No maintenance, and it has come a long way with UV protection.

 

[rbattelle]

Have you looked at plastic fencing? It comes in everything from 3 rail ranch style to picket. No maintenance, and it has come a long way with UV protection.

I looked briefly at vinyl, but I think I'd like something stronger. I think.



-Ryan

 

[AMink]

You're right, vinyl, not plastic. I couldn't come up with the correct name yesterday! I know they use the 3-rail on some of the "in town" ranches out here, and we've started using it in the parks because of the low maintenance and good looks. I don't know how strong the picket style is, but I can climb up and over the rail; I'm about 210.

 

[rbattelle]

There's a horse farm not far from here that put up the rail style vinyl. Looks really nice.



-Ryan

 

[RonA]

We just replaced part of the fence on our property. Went with 3 rail white vinyl. It looks good and was actually about the same price as a 3 rail wood fence. The only thing I did different was instead of using their concrete filled vinyl post for the gate attachment, I used 5 inch square 3/16" wall steel tubing. I machined the slots in it just like the vinyl. Sunk in 3ft of concrete it makes a sturdy gate post. I think they installed about 1300 feet of it.

 

[rbattelle]

Getting ready to dig the holes on Saturday. According to Quikrete, your hole depth must equal the height of the post above ground. So, for a 5' above-ground height you'd need a 5' deep hole.



This seems quite excessive to me. I had planned to go with a 3' deep hole. Do I really need to go as deep as the post will be above ground?



-Ryan

 

[lmills]

Ryan 3' deep for the fence posts

 

[SGibson]

I've been inst. wood on steel post fencing for some time now, you only need about 30" of insertion for most types of fencing. the ones I build are 6ft. and I run the pickets close as I can and haven't had any issues.

 

[rbattelle]

Thanks, guys... that's what I thought. I think Quikrete is just trying to sell more concrete by specifying such deep holes.



Now an asthetics question. My fence pickets will be 5' tall. This is not a privacy fence, it's just a spaced picket fence. I can buy premade pressure-treated 1x6 dog-ear pickets very cheap - $1. 59 each. These are pretty wide (I think they're meant for privacy fences). I know it's hard to answer, but would wide pickets like that, spaced a few inches apart, look alright? Or are wide pickets something that's just "not done"?



-Ryan

 

[AMink]

I'd build the frame and do a short run of the wide stuff with just a few screws to see what it looks like. If you don't like it, rip the boards in half. It'll take a little longer, but still be cheap! I've found that digging a hole that is about twice as big around as the post and 30" for your five foot fence should be good, depending on your soils. Out here everything is clay, so it's sturdy to begin with. Then pour some gravel in the bottom, set the post and add the mud. The gravel helps keep water away from your post and slow down rotting, assuming you're using wood posts. Have fun! Wish I was there to help... NOT! But if I was, I would! :-laf

 

[RBrunson]

After replacing cedar fence posts a couple of times over the years, I decided to fix the fence one last time, that was 11 years ago. I used 2x2x8' tube steel posts. Used post hole augar to bore a 24" deep hole, and filled it with concrete.



The wooden fence was always getting blowen over when the 4x4 posts started rotting. Welded 1-1/2" angle iron brackets for stringers. Stringers are 1-1/2" angle iron 8' long. I bolted the stringers to the angle iron brackets for easy removal if I want to remove a section of the fence. I screwed the cedar boards to the angle iron stringers with sheet metal screws like you use on a metal barn. This method keeps the boards right where you put them. Nails have a tendency to pull over time. Just another idea for you to kick around.

 

[SGibson]

Home Depot sells a Simpson grip tie bracket that let's you run a 2x4 stringer on a 2 3/8 post,it's # pgt-2 their posts are exuast pipe thin but if you stagger them with 40wt posts it will be fine, screw the whole thing together and you have a fence thats infinitly repairable, I have built fences like yours Ron, but with steel being what it is it could get awfully expensive today.

 

[rbattelle]

I'd love to make myself a steel or iron fence like Ron, but I can't afford that.



Another question about post holes. My posts will be 4x4 wood (except where there's a gate, where I'll use 4x6 instead). My inclination had been to drill 8" diameter holes, but it seems like everyone wants you to use 12" diameter. I was thinking of splitting the difference and going with 10". 8" would save me a small fortune in concrete costs. What do you guys think? An 8" diameter hole would be about double the width of a 4x4...



-Ryan

 

[Turbo1Ton]

I've always made them as large of a diameter as I had to to get them to about 30" or so deep. Being a poor boy and all I have to use a post hole digger. About 20 " down is as far as you can get without making the diameter larger than the scoop. How large of a diameter? I don't know, I've never measured. Probably 10" or so would be my guess. Some are larger as they don't always get dug in exactly the right spot and I might have to shave some off of one side. Drop in the post, make sure it is in line with the others and plumb, throw in a bag of concrete and viola! (Although you could just forego the concrete altogether. If you ever watch Ask This Old House, Roger Cook doesn't even use concrete. He just puts the dirt back in the hole and makes sure to pack it real tight. He says concrete holds the water and rots the wood faster. Norm says the same thing. )



I hate to tell you this but I think you might be doing too much thinking on this one. I tend to over-analyze too. One of those qualities of engineering I guess.



Jeff

 

[SGibson]

I know termites don't care much for concrete. put plastic grocery bags on the post if your worried about wood sucking water out of conc. make the hole big enough so when the post touches your stringline it's plumb

 

[rbattelle]

If you ever watch Ask This Old House, Roger Cook doesn't even use concrete. He just puts the dirt back in the hole and makes sure to pack it real tight. He says concrete holds the water and rots the wood faster. Norm says the same thing. )

Now that is very interesting. I think I'll still use concrete, just for structural reasons, but that is interesting.



And "overthink, overdesign" is my motto. I'm not just building any old fence here, I'm building a "thousand year" fence!



-Ryan

 

[nickleinonen]

if you use the concrete, sonotubes will make the fence move less with the frost... 3ft down and you should be ok with a 8" tube

 

[Turbo1Ton]

Now that is very interesting. I think I'll still use concrete, just for structural reasons, but that is interesting.



And "overthink, overdesign" is my motto. I'm not just building any old fence here, I'm building a "thousand year" fence!



-Ryan

Yeah, I know, I know. Now that I think about it, I think we have actually had this discussion before about our tendencies to overthink and overdesign stuff!



Jeff

 

[rbattelle]

Wow

So I bored the holes today. There were 3 of us working, and it took about 10 hours to drill 25 holes. The first 13 took 8 hours, the remaining 12 took 2 hours.



Those first 13 were HORRIBLE. The fence line runs along what turned out to be an area containing huge amounts of fieldstones and large sections of asphalt. I think at one time there was a road that went through my yard. On one hole we hit SOLID ROCK at 1. 5 ft. We poured sweat and blood into the hole until we reached 33 inches. We never broke through the bottom of the rock, so it must be a MONSTER.



We bored mostly 8" holes, 36" deep. There were a few 10" holes we bored (same depth) to hold 4x6 posts for gates.



My hands are ripped to shreds, and I can only imagine the aches I'll have tomorrow. In a weird way, however, I enjoy hard work... builds character.



Tomorrow I have to clean up all the dirt we drilled out. Next weekend we set the posts.



-Ryan