First oil Analysis, Thoughts?

[Deezal Man]

Heres the results of a Blackstone oil analysis on my 98. 5 24v.
Switched to AMSOIL 5w-30 @ 20K miles. Sample taken @ 10. 5K miles, no filter/oil change or make-up oil added.

BS Comments: Universal averages show typical wear metals for an oil from this type engine after a routine run on the oil. Your oil was in use 10,521 miles, a long run for the type. We found iron above average due to miles, oil use not a mechanical problem. Iron tends to track with miles use of the oil. Air & oil filtration look okay. This was Amsoil 5w/30 with no diesel fuel, moisture or coolant found. We think your program is working. Stick w/it next sample.

Results:
This sample/Universal average/Element/common source

2 / 4 Aluminum/Pistons,bearings,cases
1 / 2 Chromium/Rings
40 / 26 Iron/Cylinders,rotating shafts,valve train, any steel part sharing oil
9 / 8 Copper/Brass/bronze parts,bushings, bearings,oil coolers
2 / 6 Lead/Bearings
0 / 0 Tin/Bearings,bronze parts piston coatings
0 / 8 Molybdenum/Anti-wear additive
0 / 0 Nickle/Trace element in steel
0 / 0 Manganese, Silver, Titanium, Vanadium/Trace element
0 /163 Boron/Detergent,Dispersant additive, Anti-freeze inhibitors
9 / 9 Silicon/Airborne dirt, Sealers, Gaskets, Anti-freeze inhibitors
1 / 10 Sodium/Anti-freeze inhibitors
4142/2258 Calcium/Detergent, Dispersant additive
41 /469 Magnesium/Detergent, Dispersant additive
942/1062 Phosphorus/Anti-wear additive
1061/1217 Zinc/Anti-wear additive
0 / 1 Barium/Detergent, Dispersant additive

Physical properties:
If fuel is present in an oil, viscosity and flashpoint will often be lower than what was stated in "values should be" line. insolubles are solid material that is centrifuged out of the oil. They are typically free carbon from the oxidation of the oil itself, along with blow-by past the rings.

This test/Values should be/test property
64. 2 / 55-61 SUS Viscosity @210 Degrees
410 / >410 Flashpoint in Degrees
<0. 5 / <2. 0 Fuel %
0. 0 / 0. 0 Anti-freeze
0. 0 / <0. 05 Water %
0. 4 / <0. 8 Insolubles

What do you think? I wonder if the higher iron count is "partially" due to extended break-in? Advice?

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98. 5' 24v 2500 Auto/3. 54 4x4 SB QC 285-75-16's on Alcoa's. Everything but leather. PIAA 1200's, AMSOIL dual filter relocation system, Smittybuilt Stainless Steel Nerfs, Rhino Liner(Junk), K&N air filter(For Sale)15 year AMSOIL dealer. Time permitting, Soon to include Ultra-lite Pyro,0-50lbs boost, Trans temp in the pillar. Rancho 9000's with in cab adjustment.

[This message has been edited by Deezal Man (edited 03-20-2001). ]

 

[ToolManTimTaylor]

Deezal, Thanks for posting a "real world" test result. Most of the others don't post the legend with the xoxo/oxox's and until I get my results back it just makes it easier to read. I noticed your detergent levels are high... allmost like trans fluid #ad
. O. k O. k not that high but could this be from an additive like Power servie fuel improovers, or is it just the detergents normally found in a product like Amsoil? I use fuelsuffs and a peterbuilt guy caught me at the counter one day and swears by the stuff but said "its particularly unique molecular construction allows it to (wash by) the rings and get into the oil allmost an extra bonus to ward off acids that can form in hot motor oil". Gulp ... pretty hard one to swallow but... ... .

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[Dan Watson]

Deezal Man

Your oil sample looks great. Remember the Blackstone averages are for normal oil changes. You have run the oil 10,500 miles not 3,000 miles. So using simple math, you could expect your iron to be at leat 3 times the avg stated by Blackstone or 78 ppm. You see the avg's stated by Blackstone have to be for a certain number of miles. You are running extended drains which have to be considered when you look at the build up of wear metals. Some times it is better to compare using ppm per mile.

If you need further help with the numbers just email me and I will be glad to help.

Dan Watson
AdvancedLubeTech.com

 

[John Berger]

The numbers look pretty good, but I have one question. Why didn't you change out the filter at 5-7K and add makeup oil? That probably would have "improved" the analysis. I went to Amsoil 15W40 at 45K. I have a little over 2K on the oil and will be changing out the filter at 4K. This will be my first extended drain. Your numbers suggest a positive experience.

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1999 Dodge Ram 3500 Quad Cab 5 spd; 4:10 LSD rear; Mag-Hytec diff. cover; US Gear EGT and Boost gauges. Amsoil foam air filter and synthetics from nose to tail.
Cummins Power, don't leave home without it

 

[JJW_ND]

Dan W..... isn't TBN kinda important when extending the drain? I hardly ever see it mentioned. Does Blackstone provide TBN?

I agree that 40ppm at 10k is no big deal. Winters in PA and cold starts will push a higher Iron vs summer samples.

jjw
ND

 

[HC]

Your results are almost identical to mine, if I adjust for # of miles. You got Fe 19/5k miles, I got 19. 5/5k. I had less copper (about 3 to your 9, not adjusted for miles), and my Boron was 19; I'm not sure I believe yours could be "zero" but who knows, maybe my 19 was just from traces of the Delvac I was running before I swithed to Amsoil (level was 152 with the Delvac). I'm also using the Amsoil HDD right now.
Looks to me like you got a really good report card.

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2001 ETH, QC, LWB, 4WD, 3. 54, SPA Pyro & Boost, K&N RE-880 w/foam pre-cleaner, ARE Z-series Cab-high shell, Rear ARB locker, and all kinds of synthetic fluids...

 

[Steve Campbell]

So would Illflem's idea of using a sign magnet wrapped around the filter keep the iron content down in the oil on these extended changes?

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1999 Qcab 4x4 Driftwood
Lets move election day to April 16th Steve

 

[DocStressor]

HC - Did you do an oil analysis on the Delvac 1 before you swithed to the Amsoil? How was your iron per 5K miles? I got the same iron results with both oils (Delvac 1 and Amsoil 15W-40) at 7. 5K. They were in the low 20s, which compares with what you guys are getting. Mobil uses boron in a detergent additive, Amsoil does not. This probably means very little since both oils control deposits very well.

BZIN/UL - Using a magnet would certainly reduce the ppm iron detected by analysis. But since most normal iron containing wear particles are less than 1 micron, it is debatable whether the overall engine wear rate would improve.

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1999 Quad cab 2500, SB, SLT, 4X4, 5-speed, 3. 54, tow and camper package, Lance 820 camper, Lance cabover stabilizers, Rancho 9000s, Airlift airbags

 

[HC]

Did you do an oil analysis on the Delvac 1 before you swithed to the Amsoil? How was your iron per 5K miles? I got the same iron results with both oils (Delvac 1 and Amsoil 15W-40) at 7. 5K.

Lee,
With the Delvac (5W-40), I was running about 30 ppm / 5k. With Amsoil (5W-30), I'm running more like 20/5k. However, I have not concluded the improvement is solely due to Amsoil. I improved air filtration by adding a foam pre-cleaner at the same time I switched to Amsoil (proven lower silicon), and the Delvac was with only about 15k on the engine (switched to synthetic at about 11. 1, sampled at 16. 8k)
I believe I made the change to synthetic a little bit early, and that the higher wear with Delvac was at least partially due to continuation of the break-in wear. I've considered switching back to Delvac just for grins to confirm this, but, since both are good oils I'm not sure I want to keep switching the chemistry back and forth just to get some data.


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2001 ETH, QC, LWB, 4WD, 3. 54, SPA Pyro & Boost, K&N RE-880 w/foam pre-cleaner, ARE Z-series Cab-high shell, Rear ARB locker, and all kinds of synthetic fluids...

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

DERN! I just keep on getting into these oil discussions... #ad


IF 40ppm of iron is considered "good" at 10. 5K miles with Amsoil, what does that make MY *8ppm* at 5000 miles - with plain 'ol Rotella T? Lessee - if we even TRIPLE mine to allow for additional miles, I would STILL only be at *24ppm*!

My aluminum was 2/4, and silicon 3/9 - all other readings less than half of claimed "averages"...

HMMmm - guess my Rotella T isn't too bad after all, but after next change, plan to switch back to Delo 400 - unless the Amsoil salesmen in this group wanna chip in for several gallons of Amsoil for this por 'ol country boy... #ad
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(all donations gladly accepted... )

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http://community. webshots.com/user/davison71 Early '91 250, 727 AT, 307 rear... Banks Stinger exhaust, intercooler... US Gear OD... MORE than a match for every new PS Ford encountered so far...

 

[Deezal Man]

The numbers look pretty good, but I have one question. Why didn't you change out the filter at 5-7K and add makeup oil? That probably would have "improved" the analysis.

Talk is cheap... I'm willing to put my money were my mouth is #ad
Actually my intention was to see what would happen over the course of a full 20K mile interval. Changing filters would interrupt the test.

IF 40ppm of iron is considered "good" at 10. 5K miles with Amsoil, what does that make MY *8ppm* at 5000 miles - with plain 'ol Rotella T? Lessee - if we even TRIPLE mine to allow for additional miles, I would STILL only be at *24ppm*!

Gary, with all due respect. its not quite that simple. First off, What is the coldest morning your Cummins saw this winter? How many mornings were like this?

Having been to Vacaville a few times, I have a pretty good idea what the answer is.

Additionally, I'm pretty sure the higher iron count is partially due to the number of miles on my truck. I'm not totally convinced that it was 100% broke in at 20K...

I don't know. so I intend to re-start the interval testing @40K miles just to make sure. We'll see what happens then.

Lastly, to eliminate the temperature variable, I guess I should do the testing in the summer. Otherwise we are sorta comparing apples and oranges.

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98. 5' 24v 2500 Auto/3. 54 4x4 SB QC 285-75-16's on Alcoa's. Everything but leather. PIAA 1200's, AMSOIL dual filter relocation system, Smittybuilt Stainless Steel Nerfs, Rhino Liner(Junk), K&N air filter(For Sale)15 year AMSOIL dealer. Time permitting, Soon to include Ultra-lite Pyro,0-50lbs boost, Trans temp in the pillar. Rancho 9000's with in cab adjustment.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"Gary, with all due respect. its not quite that simple. First off, What is the coldest morning your Cummins saw this winter? How many mornings were like this?"

It's not likely WE are as "cool" as you guys are out in Pa. ! #ad


On the other hand, MOST of my driving IS short-haul stuff, 5 miles into town to get mail, run errands and such... Actually, I was pretty concerned as to how those short trips would adversely affect my analysis readings, especially fuel dilution - but fuel came in at . 5/2, or 1/4 of "average".

And hey, it DID get clear down to 32 degrees a couple of times this past winter #ad
#ad




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http://community. webshots.com/user/davison71 Early '91 250, 727 AT, 307 rear... Banks Stinger exhaust, intercooler... US Gear OD... MORE than a match for every new PS Ford encountered so far...

 

[Deezal Man]

After the winter we've had... I'm just jealous of your year round "warmer" weather #ad


I love winter... but I'll be glad when this one's over...



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98. 5' Emerald Green 24v 2500 Auto/3. 54 4x4 SB QC 285-75-16's on Alcoa's. Everything but leather. PIAA 1200's, AMSOIL dual filter relocation system, Smittybuilt Stainless Steel Nerfs, Rhino Liner(Junk), AMSOIL air filter.

 

[DocStressor]

Gary -- Are you using bypass filtration with that Rotella? If I got back 8ppm iron after 5K miles with any type of oil using a full flow filter I would ask to have the analysis re-done. Unless you drive like my grandmother (who has been dead for 30 years).

I am a great supporter of synthetic lubricants because I think I understand the technology that makes them superior to convention base stock oils. But I have to agree with you on your basic premise: Nobody has presented evidence that an engine using a top line CH-4 rated conventional oil and changed every 3-5K will experience significantly more wear than an equivalent engine using a synthetic oil OVER THE SAME INTERVAL. Under certain types of severe duty, I believe that you would see a difference. But if there is documented evidence for this, I can't find it either. Synthetics make sense for extended drains and extended drain intervals are good things for lots of reasons. Synthetics give you a margin for error with respect to turbo cool down. But if you always cool down before shutdown, is this really significant for you? Synthetics give increased protection during cold starts, but if you live in Florida or California, this is not as significant as if you live in North Dakota or Alaska. Synthetics will outlast conventional base stock oils by a wide margin because they are much more resistant to shearing and oxidation. But this really only becomes a factor after the additive packages start to deplete at higher miles.

So Gary, I don't think that you or anyone else who chooses to stick with a good conventional oil and short change intervals are Neanderthals. Based on the data out there, your discision is just as valid as anyone using synthetics and extended drains.

BTW - As I said, I saw iron in the low 20s at 7. 5K with both Delvac 1 and Amsoil HDD. But between those 2 changes a dealer accidently put in Delo 400. This came back with 12 ppm iron after 3200 miles which calculates out to 28 ppm per 7. 5K. Could this be a significant difference? Considering all the other variables involved in operating at truck, probably not.

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1999 Quad cab 2500, SB, SLT, 4X4, 5-speed, 3. 54, tow and camper package, Lance 820 camper, Lance cabover stabilizers, Rancho 9000s, Airlift airbags,Reese Titan V hitch, Mag-Hytec differential cover with Amsoil 2000 75W-90 lube, Amsoil air filter

 

[JJW_ND]

Here is some data from a month of below zero starts: https://www.turbodieselregister.com/ubb//Forum17/HTML/001451.html


In my case even semisynthetic took forever to get oil presure when starting in -20 temps. I had iron readings in the mid to upper 30s in 5 - 6k dumps on petro oil in the winter.


I was also sick of changing petro oil every 3 weeks. Seemed like a waste of oil.

jjw
ND