The do spit out less stuff out the tailpipe, and my wife is glad for that (and might not be happy with it otherwise). But it doesn't seem to be a very technologically advanced way of doing it, but rather more of a stop gap. An advancement in technology to me would be to get it to burn better in the first place, not just trap the stuff on its way out. Of course, the problem is that clean burning and power and efficiency don't always go together.
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First regen experience - strange
- Thread starter CraigSmith
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All makes have the same trouble with the DPF's, and you can warm them up using high idle for two reasons.
1) You will have to ask someone with the proper knowledge, but running your CTD at minimum idle for excessive periods of time will damage the cylinder walls. You need to program the high idle feature and never let it idle under 1200 RPM, for extended periods of time.
2) The EB will engage at low ambient temps causing a warmer exhaust, and will allow the engine to come up to operating temps faster simulating a load. The EB is also programed to come on when idling when in regen, so it makes since to run high idle.
There is a reason D/C has the program, and you should use it to minimize your regen issue. I don't understand your tech's response, that was first thing my tech recommended to me, even before the 07. 5, 6. 7's were sold.
At that time little was known about the real use of the DPF's and what the problems would be, except for the 6. 7 C&C's. He programed it free of charge and recommended I use it just as I have recommended to you.
1) You will have to ask someone with the proper knowledge, but running your CTD at minimum idle for excessive periods of time will damage the cylinder walls. You need to program the high idle feature and never let it idle under 1200 RPM, for extended periods of time.
2) The EB will engage at low ambient temps causing a warmer exhaust, and will allow the engine to come up to operating temps faster simulating a load. The EB is also programed to come on when idling when in regen, so it makes since to run high idle.
There is a reason D/C has the program, and you should use it to minimize your regen issue. I don't understand your tech's response, that was first thing my tech recommended to me, even before the 07. 5, 6. 7's were sold.
At that time little was known about the real use of the DPF's and what the problems would be, except for the 6. 7 C&C's. He programed it free of charge and recommended I use it just as I have recommended to you.
Those of you who are new to Dodge-Cummins ownership will realize over time that the last people to ask about your truck are the people who work in the Dodge dealership.
Salesmen are often clueless guys who sell cars and trucks because they have no skills and are too lazy to work. It is rare to find one who has actually read a product brochure and understands what he read. Rarely do one of them own a Dodge with a Cummins engine so they usually know less than you do. They are best at telling you a lie to satisfy a question.
Dealer techs are often only parts changers and don't know anything about the product either. A few, very few, own one and actually know as much as you do. A rare Level IV trained and certified Cummins tech works in a dealer service department and is technically knowledgeable but rarely drives one.
There are three Dodge dealer techs that are fellow TDR members who post here and understand the trucks. Each of them know more than we do about reflashes, codes, repair procedures, and such matters.
Salesmen are often clueless guys who sell cars and trucks because they have no skills and are too lazy to work. It is rare to find one who has actually read a product brochure and understands what he read. Rarely do one of them own a Dodge with a Cummins engine so they usually know less than you do. They are best at telling you a lie to satisfy a question.
Dealer techs are often only parts changers and don't know anything about the product either. A few, very few, own one and actually know as much as you do. A rare Level IV trained and certified Cummins tech works in a dealer service department and is technically knowledgeable but rarely drives one.
There are three Dodge dealer techs that are fellow TDR members who post here and understand the trucks. Each of them know more than we do about reflashes, codes, repair procedures, and such matters.
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... .....
In the winter, I drive my '02 short, around - town distance, usually 5-10 miles round trip, in the 35 MPH range, and have NEVER had any issues - you want to tell me these later trucks are technologically ADVANCED over the earlier stuff? :-laf
Yes, I'll tell you that the new trucks are far more technologically advanced than your '02 with VP-44 injection pump.
Unfortunately for us, the new ISB6. 7s are also more burdened with federal EPA mandated emissions control crap. That is not the fault of Dodge or Cummins.
It is the struggle to comply with EPA nonsense that creates the regeneration issues, not the engine technology.
OH, I wasn't blaming the Cummins - at least not the mechanical part! And, in theory and on the drawing board, the technology undoubtedly looks great as well - but trying to get RELIABLE electronics controlled mechanicl devices that will operate exactly as planned and needed, for several decades, without faltering, getting erratic or intermittent, is a tough act - the injector control, for instance - where there are multiple injection events per engine revolution, and with variable timing and fuel volume, is GREAT when it works - and a disaster when it doesn't!
Just WAIT 'til the computer/solenoid actuated valves hit the market!
My '02 has lots more electronics than I really like - I carry a spare ECM, PCM, and VP-44 - I figure they're like money in the bank - if *I* get to a point where I no longer need them, I'll likely get more than my $$$ back from someone who DOES! :-laf
Wiredawg
TDR MEMBER
Gents,
My '09 4500 has about 7,200 miles on it, the last 5,500 miles of mostly 6-mile round trips to work and no DPF problems. About once a month I put a couple hundred miles on it over the weekend. I've never been aware of regen, but assume it has occured due to heat colorization on the DPF.
I realize the C&Cs have different fueling, power and possibly environmental systems. Now I may have a clogged DPF msg tomorrow.
the one thing my dealer told me was never turn off the exhaust brake, except possibly in icey conditions and I think that may be a possible benefit.
I know these trucks may not be intended to be short distance daily drivers, but sometimes they end up being just that.
Maybe try this: keep exhaust brake on, take the same route, but maybe every third day of whatever frequency needed, get her on the highway for 15 minutes at 60+ mph. anyway, the point is there can be a combination of ways to make this vehicle be a short distance daily driver.
Keep us informed,
Wiredawg
My '09 4500 has about 7,200 miles on it, the last 5,500 miles of mostly 6-mile round trips to work and no DPF problems. About once a month I put a couple hundred miles on it over the weekend. I've never been aware of regen, but assume it has occured due to heat colorization on the DPF.
I realize the C&Cs have different fueling, power and possibly environmental systems. Now I may have a clogged DPF msg tomorrow.
the one thing my dealer told me was never turn off the exhaust brake, except possibly in icey conditions and I think that may be a possible benefit.
I know these trucks may not be intended to be short distance daily drivers, but sometimes they end up being just that.
Maybe try this: keep exhaust brake on, take the same route, but maybe every third day of whatever frequency needed, get her on the highway for 15 minutes at 60+ mph. anyway, the point is there can be a combination of ways to make this vehicle be a short distance daily driver.
Keep us informed,
Wiredawg
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I myself have seen the 80% full!! Thankfully I had to run to get groceries which is 40 miles away!!
It seems to regen every 4 hrs of run time or so... I run some interstate and my commute to work is about 2 miles. I do have a reason to run more miles now
and everything is working great!!
Just let it do its thing and everything seems to work out ok and if not then it's time get a Scout so you can see what it's doing.
It seems to regen every 4 hrs of run time or so... I run some interstate and my commute to work is about 2 miles. I do have a reason to run more miles now
and everything is working great!!Just let it do its thing and everything seems to work out ok and if not then it's time get a Scout so you can see what it's doing.
Thanks, I'll have it enabled. I don't know why it isn't that way from the factory; doesn't mean you have to use it.
My dealer has one service tech in particular who is supposedly the Cummins expert, but I don't know what his training is, or if he's online, or if he drives one (I think he does). True, I have rarely met a sales person that has even read the brochures, it's really sad. And it's not that they don't have time to.
Thanks everyone. I think this forum has saved a lot of trucks and a lot of hassle. I'll try to modify my driving style a bit and see what happens. I'll probably get a monitor of some sort. As I mentioned, I drove quite a bit on the freeway after last week's regen but it didn't seem to help, but we'll see how it goes.
Through my experience and watching my EGT gauge, this is inaccurate. While running down the highway in regen, I commonly see temps between 1250* - 1500*. As soon as I let off the throttle, the temps drop drastically. Upon engaging the throttle, the temps come back up to 1250*+. Even at 0 boost, temps remain high. As soon as the exhaust brake comes on, temps drop.
Hoefler, you are correct in that running down the highway if you quit dumping fuel to her and the exhaust brake comes on the temps will drop, but that's due to the fact you're not dumping fuel to her anymore. The temps will drop the same even if you turn off the exhaust brake in that scenario. I believe RVTRKN is only talking about when the truck is sitting still and idling.
Warm ambient, I know due to truck response its in regen, the EB will come on at idle. Asked tech and he verified, the EB will engage at idle when in regen. I don't have an EGT gage so I never know when cruising, but when I'm in city traffic, it will surge after 2000 RPM when excellerating during regen. It has done this ever sinse I updated the ECM 
Hope this helps.
Hope this helps.
I got mine today too. I was going to go in on Saturday to discuss my experience and see if they had a new flash, but didn't. Now I have to compete with the stampede I guess.
There are a couple of conflicts with the use of the Exhaust Brake and regens.
The post earlier by Hoefler is spot on where if the engine is under exhaust brake mode or zero pedal the regen injection events stop. I noticed this with mine in stock form and I have had gauges in it since new. Loaded or not the regen cycle will only allow the engine to see up to 1500°F EGT with no boost. Once the load goes up (like pulling a trailer) the boost comes up and the EGT's settle down to a reasonable 1250°F. In traffic if under a passive regen you can notice the EGT's to be as high as 6-800° at idle in gear. As soon as you put the truck into park the Regen process stops, i never tried neutral, but I would guess it would stop as well.
The use of the exhaust brake is an early fix by the dealers for a sticky nozzle on the turbos due to increased soot content and trying to avoid replacing turbos. It really has no affect on the regen process per ce, but does increase engine operating temperatures for warm up.
The major player in all this for the increased soot content is the EGR system. If you have ever seen a 6. 7 with only the DPF unit bypassed and removed, at idle when the EGR cycles the exhaust is thick with soot. Just because your stock truck has a clean pipe, doesn't show you what is going on upstream of the DPF. . There is copious amounts of soot produced due to the EGR process that is clogging up all operating parts between the exhaust valve to the DPF. O2 sensors, Turbos, EGR coolers all have to choke on that thick unburned fuel carbon.
If I could suggest one thing for a totally stock truck, it would be to pull the plug on the EGR and deal with the CEL. That should remove a large percentage of the soot produced at idle or partial low load low rpm rides. The normal operation of the engine even with retarded timing will not produce the soot that can be made by introducing inert gas into the combustion equation.
If you could see how much soot is not produced when you finally remove the DPF system and disable the EGR, it would amaze you how clean these engines can run with the proper tuning.
The post earlier by Hoefler is spot on where if the engine is under exhaust brake mode or zero pedal the regen injection events stop. I noticed this with mine in stock form and I have had gauges in it since new. Loaded or not the regen cycle will only allow the engine to see up to 1500°F EGT with no boost. Once the load goes up (like pulling a trailer) the boost comes up and the EGT's settle down to a reasonable 1250°F. In traffic if under a passive regen you can notice the EGT's to be as high as 6-800° at idle in gear. As soon as you put the truck into park the Regen process stops, i never tried neutral, but I would guess it would stop as well.
The use of the exhaust brake is an early fix by the dealers for a sticky nozzle on the turbos due to increased soot content and trying to avoid replacing turbos. It really has no affect on the regen process per ce, but does increase engine operating temperatures for warm up.
The major player in all this for the increased soot content is the EGR system. If you have ever seen a 6. 7 with only the DPF unit bypassed and removed, at idle when the EGR cycles the exhaust is thick with soot. Just because your stock truck has a clean pipe, doesn't show you what is going on upstream of the DPF. . There is copious amounts of soot produced due to the EGR process that is clogging up all operating parts between the exhaust valve to the DPF. O2 sensors, Turbos, EGR coolers all have to choke on that thick unburned fuel carbon.
If I could suggest one thing for a totally stock truck, it would be to pull the plug on the EGR and deal with the CEL. That should remove a large percentage of the soot produced at idle or partial low load low rpm rides. The normal operation of the engine even with retarded timing will not produce the soot that can be made by introducing inert gas into the combustion equation.
If you could see how much soot is not produced when you finally remove the DPF system and disable the EGR, it would amaze you how clean these engines can run with the proper tuning.
I just got the recall in the mail last night to reflash the ECM. I just called the dealer and I'm scheduled to take it in tomorrow. I've got just over 6000 miles on my '09 2500 and I haven't had any problems so far. I do some short drives due to necessity, but I've also made several long highway runs - some towing and some not. I've never seen the DPF full or regen messages. I just hope this new reflash doesn't mess anything up...
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