For you guys wanting a CAT filter kit.

[TCDiesel]

At one time, SwRI in San Antonio was doing lots of testing for Cat. Not sure who does it anymore.

The engines I previously spoke of, once repaired, got put on a steady of diet of Cat only filters and have not had futher failures. And we are talking a MUCH nastier environment than our little on highway Cummins.

Cat actually has a severe duty filtration kit available for the little 6. 6L CR engine. While I dont work on the little iron very much, I have installed a few of these kits on some rock crushing equipment and on some sand kings... its a pretty bulletproof system that has one f/w seperator filter and 2 seperate secondary filters.

Post a link I would just like to look at it... Ya... known ... that endless search for INFO. . Ha Ha that little iron is all I got

 

[brods]

Must not get sucked in..... must not post..... aw screw it.

Why don't you guys take your ******* contest to a new thread or PM's. Nobody here wants to hear it! This thread has turned into a disaster and all I was trying to do was let guys know their is a kit available... ... ... ...

Aaron, judging from your post count and join date you are relatively new to the TDR. You’ll find threads discussing oil or filters tend to get, um, rowdy. My guess is it is because there is no real practical way for the average joe to judge the products’ performance so people basically have to put their faith in a particular brand or particular products. Spin on a filter and if it doesn’t leak it works, right? No real way the owner can tell by the seat of their pants if brand A is better than brand B. People like to believe they are using the best and then get irrationally defensive whenever their faith in their favorite product is questioned.



Anyhow, there is lots to learn in the bickering, the problem is separating the good stuff from the not so good stuff. Then there is the difficulty of effectively communicating to others what is so clear in our heads in a few short paragraphs. Anyhow, specs are useful for comparison and for predicting performance in the real world, but the fact is the real world IS different than the test stand and there is no guarantee that, based on specs alone, one filter will out perform another under real world operating conditions. And how/where the filter is installed can degrade its performance too! As is shown here:



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It is also wise to keep in perspective what the spec differences really mean. What may look like a huge difference in the specs may really be a minuscule difference in the real world. I could go on for pages. For those interested in learning more here are some links to some articles.



How Flow and Vibration Affect Filter Performance - Inside and Outside the Laboratory



http://www.afssociety.org/spring2008/proceedings/PapersAndPresentations/1-5-1-Verdegan-d.pdf



http://www.donaldson-filters.com/068736.pdf



Ok back on topic. That Cat kit looks pretty good. As for location, I like it. Yes filtration theory recommends starting with the coarsest filter and then going finer and finer, but there are practical considerations to look at. If the 2 mic filter can handle doing the whole job of removing particulate, lasts a good long time and can reduce how often the OEM element gets replaced, then what is the downside in having it before the OEM filter? Or, to look at it another way, will the fuel reaching the CP3 be any less filtered either way? And if not how much different will it be and, more importantly, what are the real world effects of that difference? No one can answer that without doing extensive real world testing.



Now for more fear mongering. I believe it was sag2 who said to consider working on the fuel system like it was brain surgery and to be as clean as possible. Remember we are talking about tiny particulate that is everywhere, even dust floating in the air! It is impossible to remove the banjo fitting on the CP3, crack the fuel system open, cut lines, screw metal fittings together, etc and not cause small particles to get in. So how many people are willing to run several gallons of fuel through the newly installed filter and fuel lines in order to flush out any debris before making the final connection at the CP3? When a new spin on filter is installed how many people are willing to disconnect the fuel line and run several gallons through the filter to purge it of air and any crap left behind on the clean side of the filter during the manufacturing process?



Imo having the 2 mic filter before the stock filter (as this Cat kit does) is preferred since the stock filter will act as a sentinel filter to catch debris caused by the installation of the new filter assembly. It will also help protect against any debris flushed out of new spin on filters when they are installed. In the unlikely event the 2 mic filter gets clogged too quickly then a coarser filter/water separator can be installed just before the 2 mic filter.



A few years and 80K miles ago I caught the fear from the boards and bought a fleetguard 2 mic spin on (don’t care what its actual rating is). It is still sitting unused on the shelf. Because of the government rules forcing biodiesel blends of unknown percentages at every pump it is time to install the filter. (note the discussion of bioblends toward the end of the 068736.pdf article linked to above) The filter will be installed in between the tank and the stock fuel filter. YMMV



PS Wingate, please do post a link or get a P/N to that severe duty kit if you can.

 

[puller]

I have always worried about an in the tank pump failure. I have an aux fuel tank in the bed and pump the fuel into the main tank. I think it would be a good idea to put a "T" in the line just before the filter, that way you could pump fuel from the aux tank in case the in the tank pump fails. This seems like a simple solution to the problem, Does anyone see a problem in doing this?



Puller

 

[AaronOregon]

Brods, that brings up an excellent point! If you are changing an aftermarket spin-on filter after the stock filter you are for sure introducing larger particles into the injection system after changing. If it is before the stock filter, the stock filter is catching any debris entered into the system while doing maintenance. Hard to argue that one... ... ... . GREAT POINT!

Aaron

 

[Wingate]

Must not get sucked in..... must not post..... aw screw it.









PS Wingate, please do post a link or get a P/N to that severe duty kit if you can.

I can/will... it will just take me a little while. Its a service letter issued by Cat to dealers and registered owners of that product, the 6. 6L CR engine. . I do not believe it is available(the service letter) on Cats website. Let me do some checkin'...

 

[ACerf]

Would this kit work on a 2003 with the factory lift pump on the stock filter housing? I am not sure if this pump has enough power to suck fuel from the tank and this big filter and still make it to the HP pump without premature pump burnout.

Thanks

I am surprised that your pump wasn't replaced with the in tank pump. Mine craped out and the dealer installed the in tank one. The truck was under warranty at the time.

 

[AaronOregon]

Just ordered three more of these kits.

Aaron

 

[p-Bar]

I just ordered one . Should have done this a long time ago

 

[steved]

I still believe that dirt isn't as big of a concern (using the OE canister), I feel water is the biggest concern and most fail to address that sufficiently. While you can get a batch of dirt... its more likely you will get a load of water.



For those that haven't noticed, our fuel tends to be hygroscopic, and will absorb moisture from the atmosphere. I have twin water separators, one that absorbs water; and I find water in both water separators AND the particulate filter.



Point is, address water too... not just dirt.

 

[TCDiesel]

I receive 1-2 Pumps / 1-2 Sets injectors Weekly destroyed be Rust/Water... it is BY far the biggest killer of CR devices. F/W separator by itself is NOT good enough. . it must be accompanied By encapsulate filter or just Leave the F/W off and install encapsulate filter. I have seen the water encapsulate filter(s) swell up to the point they won't even pee. F/W at x point will just pump the H20 into system (Unless its Separate for DI and has warning in cab) . I am done with debating on at the TDR this is just another Sergent Schultz Post " I know nothing "

 

[ACerf]

I receive 1-2 Pumps / 1-2 Sets injectors Weekly destroyed be Rust/Water... it is BY far the biggest killer of CR devices. F/W separator by itself is NOT good enough. . it must be accompanied By encapsulate filter or just Leave the F/W off and install encapsulate filter. I have seen the water encapsulate filter(s) swell up to the point they won't even pee. F/W at x point will just pump the H20 into system (Unless its Separate for DI and has warning in cab) . I am done with debating on at the TDR this is just another Sergent Schultz Post " I know nothing "

I don't know about anyone else, but what? I have to say that I did not really understand most of what you said. I was a Jet Engine Tech and if I tried to explain some of the parts on the engine you would be confused. Sorry.

 

[TCDiesel]

Yep I am easily too confused... its call angelic direction... . Heeeee. . The TDR used to be a good resource for Info. . But as you look at all the threads and POSTING most vendors have left the forum. . AND as soon as My sub runs out . . I will NOT renew. I may change My mind. But I still consider the phone the # 1 source for info. the NET to me has come to just paying for correct at words. . or banners Ads,personal or company sites, its lost its appeal for info. .

 

[brods]

I receive 1-2 Pumps / 1-2 Sets injectors Weekly destroyed be Rust/Water... it is BY far the biggest killer of CR devices. F/W separator by itself is NOT good enough. . it must be accompanied By encapsulate filter or just Leave the F/W off and install encapsulate filter. I have seen the water encapsulate filter(s) swell up to the point they won't even pee. F/W at x point will just pump the H20 into system (Unless its Separate for DI and has warning in cab) . I am done with debating on at the TDR this is just another Sergent Schultz Post " I know nothing "

I don't know about anyone else, but what? I have to say that I did not really understand most of what you said. I was a Jet Engine Tech and if I tried to explain some of the parts on the engine you would be confused. Sorry.

TCDiesel said water and rust are the biggest threats to our fuel systems and that traditional water separators are not up to the task. He is talking about needing the type of filters that absorb water and block the flow when full instead of just letting the excess water pass like regular water separators do. (Do a search on Goldenrod filters for an example. ) After reading many of TC’s filter posts over the years I’ve come to the conclusion he knows quite a bit more than most people do about filtration, but that knowledge does not always come across clearly in his individual posts. Without doubt he deserves respect for his knowledge and for actually doing some real world testing. I hope he sticks around.

 

[brods]

I still believe that dirt isn't as big of a concern (using the OE canister), I feel water is the biggest concern and most fail to address that sufficiently. While you can get a batch of dirt... its more likely you will get a load of water.



For those that haven't noticed, our fuel tends to be hygroscopic, and will absorb moisture from the atmosphere. I have twin water separators, one that absorbs water; and I find water in both water separators AND the particulate filter.



Point is, address water too... not just dirt.

After all the chatter on the boards a few years back I pulled apart a used stock fuel filter looked at it under the microscope. At first I was confused and then disappointed not to find a wonderland of particulate, there was hardly any! Here are some pictures of the used Stratapore fuel filter. (sorry for the large size)

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It seems logical that water is likely the greater threat to our fuel systems. The biodiesel blends forced on us by the government makes water more of a threat for a few different reasons. Those reasons are spelled out toward the end of the 068736.pdf file which I linked to in a prior post.

 

[TCDiesel]

Brods I do NOT type well... I doubt I will ever gain that skill. . Unlike Most vendors I prefer calling, if anyone wants to post my comments, like always their are free to do So. Nice Pictures.

 

[p-Bar]

So guys I an putting one of these units on with a modification of putting another housing inline so what should the first filter be and then the second (final) filter be?? thanks Now no arguing:-laf

 

[AH64ID]

If it's the 1-14" filter base I don't think you can beat a BF1212 followed up by a Donaldson P551313.

 

[timelessconstructionllc]

I used p551000. ( 10um fuel water sep filter), the n factory housing with a Baldwin, then p551313. Some say it's overkill. I call it cheap insurance.

 

[RBellah]

Is there any filter data (donaldson, cat, fleetgaurd, baldwin etc. ) that will say when the fuel filters become clogged or contaminated they will bypass? I have been searching for this and have not seen any data to represent this bypass issue. I know oil filters have a bypass for cold weather starting so it will not blow off the filter (high pressure due to thick oil), but do not know if fuel filters would have the same bypass mechanism for any reason.

 

[AH64ID]

I haven't found any that will.