Ford building it's own diesel to replace Navistar

[LFarmer]

But International has put many 6. 0's in the medium duty 4300's.

 

[EKlem]

Light duty and medium duty are general categories that are hard to define. The cummins happens to be quite stoutly built for its displacement but is relatively lightly built if you compare it to at dt360. The international engines that are sold as powerstrokes in fords could be considered to be medium duty just as much as the cummins in our trucks.

From an automakers standpoint, there are definite advantages to a V8. The engines are much easier to fit in an engine compartment that isn't ridiculously long. Also, they are much easier to design a crumple zone with.

From a marketing standpoint, V8's are great. Many less informed buyers don't realize that more cylinders doesn't mean more power necessarily. Also, the short stroke high revving diesels that they produce drive much more like a gasser and are sportier so they are easier to sell.

Ford has done an incredible job of convincing many people that they have the toughest truck out there. The fact of the matter is that none of the big 3 are perfect and there are trade-offs with each. For people who associate a visually imposing truck with a tough truck, they will buy a ford.

The reason that most of us like our inline 6's is that they have less moving parts, the 5. 9 is a well designed engine, and they have a lot of torque. I happen to like it the most of the engine choices from the big 3 but the duramax certainly is a good engine and certain powerstrokes were good. The problems with the powerstrokes were not related to being a V8 but were related to certain things specific to the design.

 

[Dieselnut59]

But International has put many 6. 0's in the medium duty 4300's.

That is what I am saying. The 7. 3 and 6. 0hhhh have been put in the same "medium duty" trucks as our Cummins. It is the "standard" engine in the 650 and 750, as well as the medium International trucks. When given a choice, the international buyers and ferd buyers seldom ever choose the "lighter duty" V-8 engine and pay extra for the optional inline 6 Cummins, Caterpillar or DT360/DT466. A similar situation is in the Chevrolet medium duties. They have a V-8 "duramax" that is the same as the chev trucks, or you can get an optional inline 6 "duramax". We have a customer with one of each and they have NO problems with the inline one, whereas they V-8 is gutless, runs hot, has had turbo and injector problems and gets WORSE fuel economy than the inline one.

Inline 6 engines take up more room both in length and height but it can be designed into a nice looking vehicle. BMW does it with their gasser engines now and just wait till this diesel of theirs hits! It will be a screamer. BMW knows how to make an engine perform and they prove you CAN have a high revving, high torque inline 6 engine!

 

[AKaiser]

Inline 6 engines take up more room both in length and height but it can be designed into a nice looking vehicle. BMW does it with their gasser engines now and just wait till this diesel of theirs hits! It will be a screamer. BMW knows how to make an engine perform and they prove you CAN have a high revving, high torque inline 6 engine!

Yes, and I'm about half tempted to trade my truck (which usually only hauls me and the occassional grocery) on a BMW 335d when I get back from Iraq this winter. Like I said: HALF tempted.

 

[Skydiver]

How many times have we heard of someone converting a truck or suburban to a v-8 diesel? Me never.



How many times have we heard of someone converting to an inline Cummins? Many times.

 

[bigdaddydieseldan]

yeah right furd owns cummins now that's funny :-laf:-laf:-laf:-laf I agree with everyone else there new diesel will be another pos they don't know jack about real diesels :-laf:-laf:-laf

 

[Dieselnut59]

Yes, and I'm about half tempted to trade my truck (which usually only hauls me and the occassional grocery) on a BMW 335d when I get back from Iraq this winter. Like I said: HALF tempted.

Check out the X5 SUV with the diesel! That would be my top choice.

 

[AKaiser]

Check out the X5 SUV with the diesel! That would be my top choice.

I'm obviously a truck guy at heart, but if I'm going to buy a BMW, it's going to be something that can take the curves hard and fast without rolling over. The deciding factor in trading from my truck to any car is going to be whether I stay in the Indy area or not. If I move back to my home area and am close to the family farm, I'm keeping the truck.

 

[Yo Hoot]

Ahhhh... . cars are useless

 

[AKaiser]

Ahhhh... . cars are useless

True, but a truck costs you more money if you don't have a USE for it. Granted, at $4 diesel, it would take me about 10 years to make up the difference I would have to pay, but used BMWs, especially one with a diesel, bring a decent trade-in value. Of course, at the rate I drive (35K/yr) the value on any vehicle is significantly reduced every year. My truck, according to KBB is worth about $1,800 less than "average" mileage vehicles. It's an 05 with about 75,000 on it.

 

[Dl5treez]

Threads like this give me a headache. :-laf

 

[rbattelle]

My biggest gripe with Ford is they constantly change part specifications.

I've owned 2 Fords (both Ranger-class trucks), and getting parts for them was often fraught. Need a water pump? What engine, what year? Okay, there are 3 different pumps, each subtly different, used that year on that engine. Only way to know which one is correct is to pull the old one and compare.

It seems like that kind of thing happened all the time. I finally decided it's because Ford beta-tests every vehicle on the buyers.

Ryan

 

[Cummins Cowboy]

My biggest gripe with Ford is they constantly change part specifications.



I've owned 2 Fords (both Ranger-class trucks), and getting parts for them was often fraught. Need a water pump? What engine, what year? Okay, there are 3 different pumps, each subtly different, used that year on that engine. Only way to know which one is correct is to pull the old one and compare.



It seems like that kind of thing happened all the time. I finally decided it's because Ford beta-tests every vehicle on the buyers.



Ryan

thats how fords have always been put together, I think that is another reason why most mechanics hate working on all fords in general. all of the big 3 have a certain way they generally put a vehicle together, ford=changing parts, more complicated than need be. GM, very simple, loves to use clips and less fasteners to do the same thing. chrysler, uses enough fasteners and is fairly simple to work on, I like how chrysler puts things together compared to the other 2 makes, with some exceptions this is how all the big 3's cars have been for years

 

[AABEN]

I thank you are easy GRIZZY! letting ford dealer tell you that. Have a good day GRIS.

 

[Grizzly]

I thank you are easy GRIZZY! letting ford dealer tell you that. Have a good day GRIS.

It is what it is blackbear, Furd own Cummings. Ask any Furd dealer.

 

[JUeckert]

Light duty and medium duty are general categories that are hard to define. The cummins happens to be quite stoutly built for its displacement but is relatively lightly built if you compare it to at dt360. The international engines that are sold as powerstrokes in fords could be considered to be medium duty just as much as the cummins in our trucks.



From an automakers standpoint, there are definite advantages to a V8. The engines are much easier to fit in an engine compartment that isn't ridiculously long. Also, they are much easier to design a crumple zone with.



From a marketing standpoint, V8's are great. Many less informed buyers don't realize that more cylinders doesn't mean more power necessarily. Also, the short stroke high revving diesels that they produce drive much more like a gasser and are sportier so they are easier to sell.



Ford has done an incredible job of convincing many people that they have the toughest truck out there. The fact of the matter is that none of the big 3 are perfect and there are trade-offs with each. For people who associate a visually imposing truck with a tough truck, they will buy a ford.



The reason that most of us like our inline 6's is that they have less moving parts, the 5. 9 is a well designed engine, and they have a lot of torque. I happen to like it the most of the engine choices from the big 3 but the duramax certainly is a good engine and certain powerstrokes were good. The problems with the powerstrokes were not related to being a V8 but were related to certain things specific to the design.

finally, a post that makes some real sense. ford has done very well with their MEDIUM duty 7. 3 engine. the 6. 0 has been a black eye for them, but the 6. 4 seems from everything i have seen or been told by mechanics[ several different ones],has done well so far. the only light duty rated engine in a pickup, is the duramax. with few exceptions, the duramax has been well designed engine also. the duramax has also proven what a v8 can do on the dyno, with the proper fuel system. all have good points, all have weaknesses. when i first heard you had to pull the cab on a 6. 4 to replace it, i screamed. then i had to pull the engine from my 00 model dodge, suddenly the idea of pulling the cab wasnt such a bad thing. especially if the truck is designed for such a thing. . the simplest trucks to work on were the early model dodge and gm diesels, after that they all went to hell in my opinion.

 

[Grizzly]

finally, a post that makes some real sense. ford has done very well with their MEDIUM duty 7. 3 engine.....



The 7. 3 Ford diesel is classified as a light duty engine.

 

[AllianceDiesel]

the 6. 4 seems from everything i have seen or been told by mechanics[ several different ones],has done well so far.

My Father-in-law and brother-in-law are both techs for ford, they hate the 6. 4l and the 6. oh no, when I go to the shop there is always a 6. 4 there getting something pulled from the engine (major repairs) and they only get 8-10 mpg.

when i first heard you had to pull the cab on a 6. 4 to replace it, i screamed. then i had to pull the engine from my 00 model dodge, suddenly the idea of pulling the cab wasnt such a bad thing. especially if the truck is designed for such a thing. . the simplest trucks to work on were the early model dodge and gm diesels, after that they all went to hell in my opinion.

I have replaced 7 cummins engines, I have never once had any troubles with the cab, pulling and putting the motor in is the easiest part in the whole process. Whats the difference between the 1st gen and 3rd gen trucks as far as simplicity? They pretty much are the same to work on. I would rather work on 100 oily beat up cummins engines than 1 duramax or powerstroke, there horrible to work on.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

The international engines that are sold as powerstrokes in fords could be considered to be medium duty just as much as the cummins in our trucks.

UMmmmmm...



"Could be considered" by WHO? :-laf:-laf



Just because some might WISH something, doesn't make it true, and it dern certain is NOT Ford - OR their cheerleader fans - who determine ratings for diesel engines... :-laf:-laf



IF Ford really wanted to use a true "medium duty" engine in their trucks, they are perfectly free to do so - but so far, they have NOT made that choice...

 

[HBarlow]

Ferd does use a Medium Duty truck engine in their trucks... ... . at the F650/F750 level. A Cummins ISB, the same one installed in Dodge Rams, has long been an option in the MD Ferds.



But Ferd only offers disposable temporary duty engines in their pickups.