Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Ford E4OD trans in a Dodge Ram?

[GDouglas]

I have also posted this topic on the conversions page. I thought this might get some more attention on the drivetrain page.



I am currently gathering info for a possible swap of a Ford E4OD automatic into my 1999 Dodge 3500 5 speed. I found one website at fordcummins.com that seems to have an adapter plate to go from the 5. 9 to any of the Ford transmissions. They seem mainly geared to use the Cummins 5. 9 in the Ford body.



Baumann Engineering makes a stand alone programmable controller for the E4OD transmission. The two main inputs to this unit is a 0-5 volt throttle signal and road speed from the Ford speed sensor in the tailhousing of the trans. The unit is advertised at a very reasonable $400. You can map a custom line pressure curve, upshift speeds, downshift speeds, TC lockup strategies; all able to be scaled against power demand and road speed signaled by the TPS voltage and road speed sensor.



Does anyone know if Ford somewhere through the years ever had a 5. 9 Cummins bolted to one of their own transmissions? If so, I could use all factory parts for the conversion. As far as transmission crossmember and driveshaft mods, I don't see them as any bad hurdle at all to deal with.



Neat thing about an E4OD is that it can take more abuse than a 47RE, especially in OD. Another neat idea is to use one of the later 4R100 transmissions that are equiped with a PTO takeoff. You can set up the Baumann controller so that you can lock the TC clutch up in park or neutral and run your PTO acessories. The 4R100 is basically an E4OD that is full roller bearing internally from front to back.



ATS makes a triple lock coverter for the Ford transmissions also, plus if you didn't wan't to build your own trans, they offer complete units too. From what I have been able to price so far, a conversion to the Ford auto would cost about as much as a six speed conversion if you build your own Ford transmission. And that is including the cost of the ATS triple lock converter!

 

[78repowerwagon]

Other than being able to run a pto off the trans case why would you put in a 4r100 instead of a DTT or ATS or ??? built Chrysler transmission. The cost on a conversion has to be higher and the ford transmission still wont handle large power upgrades like a built Chrysler will unless you spend $$$ on the ford trans beefing it up.

 

[78repowerwagon]

Ford did use the 5. 9 with a auto in the bigger trucks like F700 as well as others. I don't know if it was a ford transmission or allison.

 

[Ram4Sam]

Oh my gosh.......

As a former Ford Powerjoke owner(with an auto trans) you don't want to do this. If you do, you will be doing alot of :{ :{ and

#@$%!



Sam

 

[GDouglas]

First, second, and third gear can be made durable enough in the 47RE, but the overdrive unit can't take as much abuse as the 4R100 steel overdrive planet carrier can. I haven't come across anything for a stand alone controler for the 47RE yet. The Baumann cotroller at $400 for the 4R100 would be a lot cheaper than the Dodge auto transmission PCM, plus the programmer can be programed for different driving and hauling styles.



As far as late model Ford chassis that use the Cummins, the only automatics available are the Allisons for the past couple or so years. Maybe someone knows of an earlier year Ford chassis that had a Ford auto transmission behind it with the Cummins 5. 9 . If so, then the adapter to go on the back of the 5. 9 would be available as a factory production part along with the starter and flexplate.

 

[GDouglas]

Reply to Ram4Sam:



I will admit that the early E4ODs had their share of problems, but there have been a lot of improvements to that unit over the past couple of years, namely the steel overdrive planet carrier and the ball bearing center support as the most significant. As with the Dodges, the factory torque converter is a POS too and also has contributed to early trans failures behind the diesels.



I used to be a Ford technician for about 5 years and I saw enough PowerStroke problems through the years to make a wise choice to get a Dodge Cummins for a more trouble free powerplant and simplicity, along with less cost to BOMB. I have been into E4ODs and 47REs for overhaul, and from a hard part standpoint, the edge goes to the E4OD/4R100 for an overall better internals package. However, any automatic that goes behind a strong diesel needs a top notch quality torque converter and a good shift kit to really hold up. Certain factory parts in either transmission won't last without good aftermarket upgrades to supplement the combination.

 

[LSMITH]

The overdrive planetary carrier in the 47RH after the 95 model year is steel, I am not sure but I think it was started in the ealry part of the 95 production. ALL of the 47RE have the steel planetary carriers. Most of the OD problems in the 94 and 95 were lack of lube and not weak carriers. There was enough of a problem to go to steel though. Some consideration for a 5 gear carrier was taking place at DC early last year, but I do not know what happened with that. 3 and 4 gear carriers are available from DC and aftermarket sources as well.



Just my thoughts. BTW the OD planetary carriers for the 47RH and 48RE are made about 10 miles from my house.

 

[M Evan]

Re: Oh my gosh.......

Originally posted by Ram4Sam

As a former Ford Powerjoke owner(with an auto trans) you don't want to do this. If you do, you will be doing alot of :{ :{ and

#@$%!



Sam

I em with Ram4Sam on this, I had 93 Ford Diesel ( sorry )with Hypermax turbo and hypermax trans computer . Trans was E4OD a survive only 38K miles, almost everything inside need to be replaced included TC. Shop who did the rebuilt told me, it started from weak TC and debris from it plugs the ports for cooling ( no temp gauge ) and heat take care of the rest of the trans. I spend over $4000 for repair and hotels , happened 400 miles from my home. I personally think OEM trans are weak no matter is ford or dodge , if you start to push them to the limit. This was main reason I put upgraded TC and VB on my trans. even, if I lost my warranty , I was the one stuck on highway not them. I think GDouglas, you will be more happy to upgrade OEM Dodge trans with aftermarket parts then go with E4OD from Ford.

M

 

[Texas Diesel]

Guys: *Read* his original question, he wants information on how/if it can be swapped not an arm chair debate over *if* he should.

 

[M Evan]

Gees, you right Texas Diesel . I was not thinking to much. Sorry:--)

M

 

[Motorhead]

In larger Fords with the Cummins, The trans is an Allison

 

[Ram4Sam]

Gee Tex.....

Tex, it was fairly obvious after I read it the first time that other than a bell housing, he already has this swap figured out and doesn't need much help with the engineering. I was just trying to add a little color to the thread and do a little Ford bashing



I promise that next time I get the urge to do something like that, I'll check with you first



Sam

 

[Bluhaven]

You could try these people,http://www.advanceadapters.com/index515.html they might be able to help?

 

[Texas Diesel]

Re: Gee Tex.....

Originally posted by Ram4Sam

I promise that next time I get the urge to do something like that, I'll check with you first



Sam

You better or I'll dunk you in bacon grease and send my attack Chihuahua after you

 

[GDouglas]

Reply for M Evan:



I agree with you totally on your '93 trans. Back then they only had 3 pinion planets with aluminum carriers and had a horrible track record. I would not even consider building up a core unless it was a '97 and up unit with the 4 pinion planets with steel carriers and a ball bearing center support. The later year units seem to have a good track record behind the dielsels finally, but the torque converters remain a long term durability issue just like the 47RE. .

 

[Ram4Sam]

Re: Re: Gee Tex.....

Originally posted by Texas Diesel





You better or I'll dunk you in bacon grease and send my attack Chihuahua after you

Yikes:-laf :-laf



Sam

 

[Big_Daddy_T]

After years of poking around Gdouglas said more than anyone I have spoken with about the internals of fords transmission. I have also asked about the e4od swap ,out of curiosity. I also inquired about allison and older 727s. I here tale that ford doesnt use the e4od anymore. Not sure if thats accurate. If they discontinued it I made the assumption that it could not handle the uprates the engine has seen over the years. Just like they are discontinuing the 618. if the last was a 518 is the next a 718? So now we get a 48rh. My final decision was to stick with the 618 and make it bullet proof due to the cost of the swap. I was told that the core of our transmission is still basically a 727. With some help a 727 could handle 2000hp. It seems that with some help our 618 can handle 6 or 7 hundred ponies. Mine is starting to fail for the second time at somewhere around 400hp. This transmission has over 150k on it with no rebuild so I am not suprised.

Gdouglas have you seen the product of a built e4od? How do they stand up? Is anyone using them in an application of over 600hp? I have always been curious about the ford transmission. My family is mostly Ford.

 

[78repowerwagon]

Big_Daddy_T

I'm not sure I read that right- you have 150k on your current trans with 400hp? What mods did you do to the transmission? Just curious as I am trying to decide what to do on my wifes. BOMB the motor and destroy the trans or BOMB the trans and run a stock motor or do a little tweaking on both and try to be happy till I can afford MORE!

 

[GDouglas]

Reply to Big Daddy T:



The automatic that Ford uses now is still basically an E4OD, but with all the upgrades that have been performed to it over the past few years, it has been renamed the 4R100. They currently use the 4R100 in an extreme application such as the 1999 and up Lightning pickups. The top speed of 140-150 mph on these trucks is indeed done in overdrive as the supercharged engine would run out of rpm in 3rd gear to acheive those speeds. The Lightning version of the 4R100 is basically the same internally as the ones they put behind the Power Strokes, just the PCM programming is different. I have seen a few Lightning trucks at the dragstrip with lots of hp upgrades and they are holding up very well with just upgraded torqe converters and good shift kits such as the Transgo kit. Some of these trucks are putting out a good 500 hp with about 600 to 700 ft-lbs of torque to run 11s and 12s in the quarter.

 

[Nordby]

Just adding my experience with the E40D. I have one in a 1996 F250 4x4. Mine is stock, with some breathing mods to the 460 to help it out at altitude (exhaust, k&N, silencers missing, etc). OUt of the 55K miles on it, 40K of it is towing 8K lbs of gooseneck and horses up and down the interstate to South Dakota, often in the summer in temps > 100 degrees, 850 miles one way and always straight through with lots of gas stops :^)!. I tow overdrive at 70-75mph for most of it. No problems with the transmission, though it has some habits that I could do without, like shifting from OD to 2nd to 3rd instead of OD to 3rd (get around it by disabling OD at the appropriate times), and shifting from 3rd to 2nd, but going to 4000rpms in second and not upshifting back to 3rd without severely letting off the gas. Annoying, but workable.



Colorado Diesel folks mentioned the E40D could take some pretty good abuse in the newer vehicles.



Just more data points.

later, jon