Frame rot

[brods]

.......

As to welding, an inexpensive MIG, even with flux core wire, no gas, rig is very easy to learn and could be used for this repair. If you don't have one, it's something that once you have it you'll find all kinds of new things you can make and repair. I even repaired an input spline drive shaft once, saving me the cost of a replacement part, not to mention delay it getting it, which basically has the welder paying for itself in a few repairs.

I often run 100% CO2 with solid wire for mild steel welds and it leaves a pretty clean and very strong weld bead (CO2 is actually a reactive gas, not a shield gas, and it's cheap, when it reacts is adds carbon to the weld and strengthens it). I've also run tri-mix gas for Stainless welds, a bit more complicated, but doable (I did my own custom exhaust in Stainless, as well as a kitchen vent hood for the cooktop, and a few other projects).

For your repair you can use the flux core wire, where no gas is needed. For practice you not need a frame section, any scrap metal of the same thickness of the frame, and repair section would suffice to find the right voltage/wire feed setting. For MIG that is the 2 settings for flux core.. if you use gas, then you set the regulator for flow, and that is all there is to it.

I've never had a formal weld school, but I've done all kinds of weld projects, I even fixed my multi-tool with a small weld bead and it's holding up.

Sorry, but I have to strongly disagree here. Welding the frame is arguably one of the most demanding applications for a weld. Now add that lives are potentially at stake, this is no place to be learning how to weld. If someone is not fully confident in their ability to make good welds AND their ability to recognize when their weld doesn't have the proper penetration, then they should not do it. Second, while spray on weld (MIG) is easy to learn, it is also easier to make bad welds that may look ok. In over 30 years of welding and fabricating in the filtration industry, the overwhelming majority of the weld failures we've seen have been MIG welds lacking proper penetration/fusion. MIG in the hands of a novice is not what you'd want on your truck frame. Welding is fun and rewarding. Like anything a person has to know their limitations and apply common sense while thinking through all the risks.

 

[Learjet]

Talk about trailer and frame repairs...here is my BAL frame repair on my 5th wheel trailer:

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[Timd32]

I've used cold galvanized weld thru spray in the past, any one have thought of prep the bare metal with that.

You could always do alot of the set up and prep and metal forming and cutting and fitment work and have your work buddies stitch it up for you.

Check out Wool wax or fluid film as a treatment program. Their applicator rods can reach far into the frames and doors can be drilled and plugged with grommets for access.

I really wanted to do the Krown treatments but the closest places are around 2hr away and they are booked like crazy, but for those its 6mo treatments. DIY gives you better QC of the application but time becomes an issue.

 

[MarkEagleUSA]

You could always do alot of the set up and prep and metal forming and cutting and fitment work and have your work buddies stitch it up for you.

The steel I bought wasn’t available locally so it’s shipping from Georgia... should be here Monday. This weekend I’ll probably start the prep, removing the rot, etc. The welding services are being negotiated!

I bought the Frame stuff from Eastwood that David recommended. When done with the repair I’m thinking about a Fluid Film treatment.

I like the tapered sides in Learjet’s repair and may do the same to avoid a vertical weld.

I have another thing to figure out... the bottom of the frame is radiused and I’m using rectangular tubing with square corners the fit over the rail. Will need to come up with a way to fill the void. First thought is seam sealer or something similar. Second
thought is welding in some kind of of plug.

 

[MichaelOverfield]

Sorry, but I have to strongly disagree here. Welding the frame is arguably one of the most demanding applications for a weld. Now add that lives are potentially at stake, this is no place to be learning how to weld. If someone is not fully confident in their ability to make good welds AND their ability to recognize when their weld doesn't have the proper penetration, then they should not do it. Second, while spray on weld (MIG) is easy to learn, it is also easier to make bad welds that may look ok. In over 30 years of welding and fabricating in the filtration industry, the overwhelming majority of the weld failures we've seen have been MIG welds lacking proper penetration/fusion. MIG in the hands of a novice is not what you'd want on your truck frame. Welding is fun and rewarding. Like anything a person has to know their limitations and apply common sense while thinking through all the risks.

Certainly what you say is true, but as I mentioned, some practice welds to verify settings and proper penetration will mitigate that.

Considering the rust is ALREADY a factor in weakening the frame, and it's a repair in contention, it is hard to see even a less than ideal welded repair as being less safe than a frame already ravaged by extensive corrosion.

I experienced some poor penetration welds on one of my first projects, and you are correct that the weld might look OK, but have no real strength to it, but after that I now side on the higher heat settings to ensure proper penetration on all welds, it does take a liitle practice, but it's pretty easy to learn for people with some tool experience.

 

[DavidC]

When you use the Eastwood stuff wear old don't care clothes and either a throw away tarp or somewhere you do not care about. Don't ask how I know this. It does coat and run very well so if you get it on something you want to keep it may never come out. It is very good for it's purpose and will creep into everything.

 

[MichaelOverfield]

The steel I bought wasn’t available locally so it’s shipping from Georgia... should be here Monday. This weekend I’ll probably start the prep, removing the rot, etc. The welding services are being negotiated!

I bought the Frame stuff from Eastwood that David recommended. When done with the repair I’m thinking about a Fluid Film treatment.

I like the tapered sides in Learjet’s repair and may do the same to avoid a vertical weld.

I have another thing to figure out... the bottom of the frame is radiused and I’m using rectangular tubing with square corners the fit over the rail. Will need to come up with a way to fill the void. First thought is seam sealer or something similar. Second
thought is welding in some kind of of plug.

If you have additional metal needs, you can also try onlinemetals.com. I have used them for all kinds of projects, they can do custome cuts for base materials, and they ship very fast.

As to the gaps, I would just use some sealer in that area, I have used a POR-15 patch sealer on a leak around the top of a windsheild on my Land Rover that worked, very well. The nice thing again about that line of products, the don't require complete rust removal, it will penetrate and chemically react with the rust and stop. It ironically works best with a slightly rusty suface over new metal.

Welds at the bottom and top of the frame are at the highest stress points, so I'd do welds there sparingly.

 

[MichaelOverfield]

When you use the Eastwood stuff wear old don't care clothes and either a throw away tarp or somewhere you do not care about. Don't ask how I know this. It does coat and run very well so if you get it on something you want to keep it may never come out. It is very good for it's purpose and will creep into everything.

That sounds very much like POR-15... Wonder if it's a similar chemical composition.

 

[MarkEagleUSA]

If you have additional metal needs, you can also try onlinemetals.com. I have used them for all kinds of projects, they can do custome cuts for base materials, and they ship very fast.

I bought the tubing from OnlineMetals. Was supposed to be in stock locally for will call pickup but wasn’t, so they’re shipping it from GA at their expense. Nice touch of customer service for my first time dealing with them.

 

[DavidC]

That sounds very much like POR-15... Wonder if it's a similar chemical composition.

Maybe,I do not know

 

[Wiredawg]

Decided on a new post versus previous one. Here is pic of my backhoe subframe that I tore left side in half and tore part of right half.

Notice the ends are angle welds and the leaders on the front and rear. No problems since.

Cheers, Ron

 

[MarkEagleUSA]

Here's the general concept for the repair piece (5x3x.120 tubing with top removed).

• 18" long
• 4-1/2" high
• Angled ends to prevent vertical welds.
• (3) centered slots (1/2x3) for rosette welding.
• The angled upkick at the lower left is where the frame kicks up over the rear axle. The rotted section is below the center slot.

I think this should do the trick. Comments welcomed...

 

[Learjet]

I think you are correct....that piece I welded on was from BAL and the engineering department....looks similar...you can see the dots for the stitch welding

see below...they requested no welding on the bottom of the frame.

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the trailer has a Z frame

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[MichaelOverfield]

Here's the general concept for the repair piece (5x3x.120 tubing with top removed).

• 18" long
• 4-1/2" high
• Angled ends to prevent vertical welds.
• (3) centered slots (1/2x3) for rosette welding.
• The angled upkick at the lower left is where the frame kicks up over the rear axle. The rotted section is below the center slot.

View attachment 122438
I think this should do the trick. Comments welcomed...

That looks pretty good. Also, Learjet in post above makes a good point. the critical stress point is the upper, and lower portions of the frame. Even the RAM Bodybuilder guide mentions to not do ANY drilling or modification in that part of the frame.. that said, in your case you have some of the bottom of the frame gone from rust, so you want to ensure the patch can assume that loading and flex to match the rest of the frame. Just now thinking about it, if you did welds on the bottom, they would take all the stress and the other welds would see only minimal stress, so avoiding welds on the bottom makes sense, that way the stress is transfered to the new section along a larger section of metal and welds in the least critical area of the frame, as your diagram shows. I think you have a plan here.

 

[MarkEagleUSA]

Notice the ends are angle welds and the leaders on the front and rear. No problems since.

What's the deal with those leaders? I've never seen that before.

 

[MarkEagleUSA]

the critical stress point is the upper, and lower portions of the frame. Even the RAM Bodybuilder guide mentions to not do ANY drilling or modification in that part of the frame.

What is considered the "upper" part of the frame. I think I'll be within 1-1/2" - 2" (top third anyway) with this repair.

 

[Wiredawg]

What's the deal with those leaders? I've never seen that before.

BIL told me prevents stress cracking reduces stress at the terminal points of the repair strengthening steel plate. He was master mechanic and welder at Holt Catipiller, working on giant construction equipment.

Cheers, Ron

 

[MarkEagleUSA]

BIL told me prevents stress cracking reduces stress at the terminal points of the repair strengthening steel plate.

Interesting. Never seen or heard of that before.

Gonna be a long weekend waiting for my steel to arrive Monday...

 

[mwilson]

Interesting. Never seen or heard of that before.

Gonna be a long weekend waiting for my steel to arrive Monday...

Well then, let's kill some time using welding memes...

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[mwilson]

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