Fried my Turbo

[Ozymandias]

Seems the shop that installed your manifold greatly messed up.
I remember the lose studs when we met.

 

[CVR222NV]

Seems the shop that installed your manifold greatly messed up.
I remember the lose studs when we met.

I had asked the shop that installed the exhaust manifold to use studs but as it turns out they used bolts. All were loose! I ordered a set of studs and had my soon to be son in law install them. Everything is tight now and will continue to monitor. It is impossible for me to know who left the foreign object in the air inlet components. I have even had it apart myself. The only thing I'm certain of is who is paying for it!

 

[Ozymandias]

Yeah, I can only guess that the shop didn't do retorque the bolts after one hot/cold cycle.

I did that after my install according to the manual and all bolt went in another quarter turn till the wrench clicked. Same with the Turbo to Manifold nuts but not as much.

Checked mine two weeks later again but all bolts stayed the same, torque was fine after that one single heat up cycle.

 

[CVR222NV]

Ozy, do you happen to have the torque specs handy? We will follow the procedure you outlined. Thanks!

 

[Ozymandias]

Jup, checked my notes, it's 35 lbs-ft on all bolts.

 

[CVR222NV]

Here we go again! As many of you know I am replacing my motor with a remanufactured motor. The link to that thread is below:

Remanufactured Engines | Turbo Diesel Register

It was my intention to just reuse my turbo that I had upgraded by Turbo Resource (discussed above). However I did decide to paint the turbo and exhaust manifold before reinstalling. I found a local shop that does high heat ceramic coatings for applications including exhaust components including turbos. That required that I disassemble my turbo. The shop did a nice job and when I got the turbo back I started to reassemble the turbo and upon cleaning the turbine wheel of soot I noticed what appeared to be damage to the turbine wheel.

Here is another photo with the turbine wheel inserted in the exhaust turbine housing:

Needless to say I do not intend to put this turbo back on the motor without, at a minimum, sending it back to Turbo Resource for another rebuild. At the time I did the mild upgrade to my turbo I only contemplated injectors and exhaust manifold upgrades. However, the remanufactured motor has many more upgrades so I am now contemplating whether I should upgrade the turbo. I really want to stay with the Holset HE351CW turbo platform so my research indicates I have a few options. First, the following is the stock parameters of the HE351CW:

Compressor wheel: 60 mm x 86 mm
Turbine wheel: 58 mm x 65 mm

The following was my Turbo Resource State 1 upgrade:

Compressor wheel: 60 mm x 86 mm x 90 mm billit
Turbine wheel: 60 mm x 70 mm

The Turbo Resource State 2 upgrade is as follows:

Compressor wheel: 60 mm x 86 mm x 90 mm billit (same compressor wheel as Stage 1)
Turbine wheel: 67 mm x 76 mm (requires modification to the exhaust turbine housing)

Many of you have used Turbo Lab for upgrades and the following are their upgrades for the Holset HE351CW:

Compressor wheel: 62.45 mm x 86 mm x 90 mm billit (rated to 650 hp)
Compressor wheel: 67 mm x 89 mm x 95 mm billit (rated to 700 + hp)

Turbo Lab uses the 67 mm x 76 mm turbine wheel in the above upgrades.

According to Turbo Lab the size of the compressor wheel equates to power and the size of the turbine wheel equates to lower EGT's. Given the following upgrade modifications to my motor what are the recommendations for upgrading the turbo with towing and responsiveness being most important:

Industrial Injection CP3 pump + 33%
BBI Stage 1 injectors
2003-2004 Marine Pistons
PDI Exhaust manifold +23%

Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated!

 

[AH64ID]

Dad ran the stage 1 at around 375 rwhp and it was a great setup for towing. Clean, quick to spool, and worked well at high altitude. He had 100hp injectors and 03-04 style pistons and a G56 as well.

Unless you want more than ~375 rwhp (475 or so at the crank) I would stick with the build you had.

 

[CVR222NV]

Dad ran the stage 1 at around 375 rwhp and it was a great setup for towing. Clean, quick to spool, and worked well at high altitude. He had 100hp injectors and 03-04 style pistons and a G56 as well.

Unless you want more than ~375 rwhp (475 or so at the crank) I would stick with the build you had.

Thanks John! I always appreciate your input and the fact that you have experience with high elevations is a factor I forgot to mention that is important to me. I guess I'm looking for the best of all worlds: more power, quick spool (including high elevations), low EGT's. My thought is to go with the 67 mm x 76 mm turbine upgrade for EGT's and either stay with my current 60 mm compressor wheel or upgrade to the 62.45 Turbo Lab compressor wheel. The 67 mm Turbo Lab compressor upgrade seems like a big jump and would be pushing my horsepower limits. As always I would appreciate your thoughts.

 

[Chase Chapin]

So I've been doing some preliminary research into turbo upgrades and am thinking of trying the Turbo Re-Source route also. My turbo has a warped exhaust flange and hairline crack between the turbine housing and the flange (no doubt impacting my boost and E-brake performance). I've been keeping things mostly stock but someday hope to upgrade to BBi stage .5s for some towing performance. This has become more of a dream of mine in recent months as my truck is hitched to an 8-12k stock trailer or I'm dragging around a 30ft flatbed with some random object strapped to it! I appreciate CVR222's preference of retaining the 351CW platform, however John, I know you have had good experiences with the Garrett Stage 1, in perusing the forum I have also seen suggested keeping the 351 compressor but upgrading the exhaust turbine to 6.7 specs. I'm kind of new to this turbocharger lingo and business and sometimes can't see how 2mm here and 3mm there can make that much difference. Anyhow, just throwing it all out there, let me know what you guys think. Thanks!

 

[AH64ID]

Thanks John! I always appreciate your input and the fact that you have experience with high elevations is a factor I forgot to mention that is important to me. I guess I'm looking for the best of all worlds: more power, quick spool (including high elevations), low EGT's. My thought is to go with the 67 mm x 76 mm turbine upgrade for EGT's and either stay with my current 60 mm compressor wheel or upgrade to the 62.45 Turbo Lab compressor wheel. The 67 mm Turbo Lab compressor upgrade seems like a big jump and would be pushing my horsepower limits. As always I would appreciate your thoughts.

I agree the 67 seems like too much jump.

I’d just be a little nervous about spooling that larger turbine at altitude, but it might not be an issue.

What’s your power goal?

 

[CVR222NV]

I agree the 67 seems like too much jump.

I’d just be a little nervous about spooling that larger turbine at altitude, but it might not be an issue.

What’s your power goal?

I want to stay within the power ratings of the engine and clutch:

• DFC Remanufactured Engine - rated at 700 hp at the crank
• South Bend Clutch - SDD3250-GK-ORG Dual Disc - rated at 550 Hp 1200 ft-lbs Trq

Seems like the clutch is the limiting component at 550 hp so somewhere in the 500 range seems reasonable. I would rather have the additional power and not need it than to get down the road and realize I could use additional power and have to do a future upgrade. I already have one trailer and have another trailer purchase for heavier hauling on the horizon.

 

[AH64ID]

Huge variance in power there, not to mention those ratings are likely geared towards quick burst of power and not towing power.

The cooling and oiling system are tapped at around 450rwhp sustained.

 

[CVR222NV]

Huge variance in power there, not to mention those ratings are likely geared towards quick burst of power and not towing power.

The cooling and oiling system are tapped at around 450rwhp sustained.

Ahh I should have been clear that I also want to stay within the confines of the other systems on the truck. I did see a comment that the 67 mm x 89 mm x 95 mm compressor wheel upgrade requires an intercooler upgrade so that one is definitely off the list. I read through the old thread I referenced in the beginning of this thread and it seems that the 67 mm x 76 mm turbine wheel upgrade from Turbo Re-source (Stage 2) would be within the 450 rwhp limit. That only leaves the 62.45 mm x 86 mm x 90 mm compressor wheel upgrade from Turbo Lab to consider. Any thoughts on that option?

 

[AH64ID]

Being a billet wheel it should spool quickly and compliment the stage 2 turbine wheel. With the low ratios of the G56 I think it would work well for you.

 

[CVR222NV]

Being a billet wheel it should spool quickly and compliment the stage 2 turbine wheel. With the low ratios of the G56 I think it would work well for you.

It looks like I can purchase all new components from Turbo Lab. However I need to call them to see if they will balance the rotating assembly. The only other question I have is the reference on the original thread to the use of gapless rings. Any thoughts on gapless rings on the shaft?

 

[Tuesdak]

It looks like I can purchase all new components from Turbo Lab.

IMO I would outright replace the turbo or send it back to Turbo Resource for another rebuild. In case it wasn't pointed out: the turbo ate parts of the piston going through it. Damage to the housing and a bent/cracked shaft are possible. Warranty on turbo if it takes another engine out on failure vs. DIY is a good ?

You also need to make sure all debris are cleaned out of the intake and exhaust sides. Debris gets thrown around and the comparatively weak airflow doesn't stop it from going backwards in the intake from piston or valve motion. IMO the intake side all the way to the intercooler needs an inspection for debris. You may find other debris in the cat converter that I doubt would come back up.

Did your engine build have a non-stock cam in it? This change allowed me to run the Garrett Stage 3 Ball Bearing turbo without it barking. IMO the stage 2 would have been better for EGT's. If you can find one they are worth it. Less friction heat from the bearings allows a bigger turbo to spool like a smaller one. The howl shuts up under load so it makes it neat.

You could call and see if this place has any left. I picked up a stage 2 housing from them just before I sold it. Never got a chance to install it.

https://www.turbodieselregister.com...t3782r-turbo-5-9l-2002-5-2007-stage-2.266231/

Stage 2

https://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=759361-5011S&Store_Code=tp

Stage 3

https://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=759361-5012S&Store_Code=tp

The cooling and oiling system are tapped at around 450rwhp sustained.

X2 on this. With my BOMBED 2003 I had to keep a close eye on EGT and ECT when towing the grades around here and back out when EGT got too high as ECT rise quickly followed. There were a few grades I did have to shut off the A/C.

 

[CVR222NV]

IMO I would outright replace the turbo or send it back to Turbo Resource for another rebuild. In case it wasn't pointed out: the turbo ate parts of the piston going through it. Damage to the housing and a bent/cracked shaft are possible. Warranty on turbo if it takes another engine out on failure vs. DIY is a good ?

You also need to make sure all debris are cleaned out of the intake and exhaust sides. Debris gets thrown around and the comparatively weak airflow doesn't stop it from going backwards in the intake from piston or valve motion. IMO the intake side all the way to the intercooler needs an inspection for debris. You may find other debris in the cat converter that I doubt would come back up.

Did your engine build have a non-stock cam in it? This change allowed me to run the Garrett Stage 3 Ball Bearing turbo without it barking. IMO the stage 2 would have been better for EGT's. If you can find one they are worth it. Less friction heat from the bearings allows a bigger turbo to spool like a smaller one. The howl shuts up under load so it makes it neat.

You could call and see if this place has any left. I picked up a stage 2 housing from them just before I sold it. Never got a chance to install it.

https://www.turbodieselregister.com...t3782r-turbo-5-9l-2002-5-2007-stage-2.266231/

Stage 2

https://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=759361-5011S&Store_Code=tp

Stage 3

https://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=759361-5012S&Store_Code=tp




X2 on this. With my BOMBED 2003 I had to keep a close eye on EGT and ECT when towing the grades around here and back out when EGT got too high as ECT rise quickly followed. There were a few grades I did have to shut off the A/C.

Yeah this turbo will not go on any truck until it is rebuilt. I was going to call Turbo Re-source tomorrow to see what my options were.

When I disassembled the turbo there were no pieces evident anywhere. I didn't notice any scoring on the exhaust turbine housing. It wasn't until I cleaned the soot off the turbine wheel that I noticed the damage. I assume any pieces went downstream. I will check out the intercooler but I would note that the billit compressor wheel is in pristine condition and would assume that if any particles made it through the bearing housing, no matter how small, that there would be evidence of damage given how fast the compressor wheel is spinning. I will check out the intercooler (which I replaced after the first event) and was already replacing all the intercooler rubber sections.

I'm trying to wrap my head around how particles in the CAT could move back upstream in that environment? I guess I could unbolt it and shake it out to see if there are any particles.

My engine rebuild has a Colt State 3 cam which specs very similar to its Hamilton counterpart that was being recommended. DFC Diesel could not get the Hamilton cam.

Do the Garret turbos you are recommending bolt up to the stock exhaust and intake components on my truck? In other words are they a direct replacement?

 

[Tuesdak]

As you ran the truck for awhile... The damaged turbo likely happened while it was wound up. Then at idle other debris can move around. Going backwards clean through the intake side: debris gets stopped at the intercooler before reaching the intake side of turbo. IMO you only need to look as far as the intercooler. I wouldn't think things could get back out of the cat, but, I wouldn't bet a turbo and engine on it. After all Nissan has the cats closer to the engine and when they fail debris goes back into the engine through the exhaust valve, scores up the cylinder till it pops a rod, and then the massive oil leak from the popped rod on the cat burns the car to the ground.

The Ball Bearing Garret turbos are liquid cooled. They are a kit to tap the heater hose in the cooling system, but, not what I would call bolt on drop in. Not that hard to do however.