front axle

[Philip]

Well I thought I had a u-joint go bad with the last snow we had. I also needed to do a front brake job also. So yesterday I tore into it.



Now the bad part. Attached is a pic of my left inner axle. Anyone have one they want to part with?



Right side inner was good no problems there.

 

[ESchoon]

WOW!!!! How did that occur? I've seen stuff like that on the outer stub shafts, but I've never seen any inner axles like that before.

 

[jdurham]

My question would be why is only the end got the splines stripped off? Looks like the axle wasn't all the way in!

 

[Philip]

Well when it happened I was in deep snow. In low lock with 2500# of hay on the bed going up hill with a lot of throttle. I had what sounded like a u-joint start screaming for mercy. Well I found out differentely this morning. :{



The u-joints were good. But while i am in there they both are getting replaced.



JD I think when I get the front cover off I'll find a spider gear blown most likely. Its happened before on this truck. You should see the scars on the inside of the front cover.

 

[PToombs]

Hey! That's pretty cool! I wish I could help you with parts, but I don't have nothin'. Need an engine or a trans? rear diff? those I got!

 

[ARhine]

Don't see D60 shafts messed up with stock sized tires very often, must have really been gettin it

Only chipping the end like that is strange though, bet you do find more breakage when you pull the cover.

Andy

 

[Philip]

You can't see it in the pic. But the other side has a couple of splines messed up pretty bad. If you look close at the pic. The first spline you see on top of the axle. Look real close and you can see the spline just sort of disappears toward the inner end.



I was throwing about 10# of boost when this happened. On a truck that only does 20#. That will give you a idea. LOL

 

[Why Not]

I have seen that once before and what caused it was the shaft was to short. The Dodge and Chevy shafts are different in length. The truck that came through my shop was a mud truck with a Dodge front axle running 35" tires. He was running a set of shafts he had found. Come to find out they were shafts from a Chevy Dana 60 axle. The difference in length was about 3/4 of a inch shorter which caused the shaft to not be deep enough in the side gears for proper engagement. I have only seen it once that was what we decided was the cause. Since replacing the shaft with proper length he has had not problems.



I will do some checking, I think that I still have some extra Dodge shafts.



Why Not (Chris)

 

[dpuckett]

Just for kicks and grins for those who may be searching for parts, what are the measurements, Philip? Length, diameter, spline count. As many small differences as there were among the diesels, and esp since yours is a factory hybrid, it could be easy to get the wrong sized stuff.



Daniel

 

[Philip]

The axle is 35 spline count 35 1/4" from the end of the axle to center of u-joint. Quad 4x4 says the axle is the same for the 60 and 61 axles. I'll be ordering a axle tomorrow.



Look at the pic a little closer. The axle isn't to short. You can see the wear mark where the spinder gear was positioned. The torn up end was from all the extra parts floating around in the carrier assy when that spider exploded. :-laf



I bought a used 3:07 ring & pinion and carrier assy on ebay a while back. So if I trashed everything else. I do have parts on hand to repair it. Other than the axle shaft.



I also have a spare 3:07 model 70 rear carrier assy if I blast that one to.

 

[Philip]

Ok to finish this thread. I did not loose a spider gear. All of them still had the teeth. But all the thrust washers were shot. This allowed the spiders to move side to side. That is what ate the axle up.



After putting my spare carrier in I found that one of the spider gears would not accept the new axle shaft. So I had to replace the spider gears in my spare carrier assy. :{



Now for the evalation of Quad 4X4's service. It took 3 weeks for me to recieve the axle and pinion install kit. The axle was the correct one. But the 3 week delivery I think is to long. But that could have been caused by his supplier. So I am not saying anything on that part. But his pinion install kit was about worthless. Every install kit I have ever bought came scrink wraped to a piece of cardboard and had spicer/dana all over it. His came in a plastic bag. It had 6ea . 0018 shims, 6ea . 0024 shims, 2ea . 0030 shims. It also had a new pinion nut & washer, and shims for the pinion. I did not measure the pinion shims. But the selection wasn't much better than the carrier shims. No cover gasket or pinion seal. A spicer kit comes with a lot better selection of shims. It has new ring gear bolts and a cover gasket, pinion seal.



For the people that have never installed a new carrier into a different housing. That selection of shims is very poor. If I hadn't of saved some of the old shims. I would not have been able to install the carrier with what he provided.



I didn't even call Quad on the spiders. I knew he did not have a spider kit in stock. I called another place I have dealt with before. I had the spider gear kit in one day. This came in a scrink wraped package that had spicer on it. It had new ring gear bolts,spider gears and all thrust washers, cross shaft and new roll pin, a tube of silly sealer and a cover gasket.



So my thoughts on Quad 4x4. I will probably not deal with them agin. I went to them because a lot of members hold them high reguard. But with that poor install kit I got. When I order a install kit I want a complete kit provided by a major MFG. Not a few parts someone threw into a plastic bag. That changed my mind about them.



I'll stay with DTS from now on.



DTS - Drive Train Specialists

 

[Greenleaf]

I rebuilt my 1990 3. 07:1 rear diff with the parts from DTS. I even bought an extra set of carrier bearing cones to grind down. They work really slick to set the shim pack.



Phillip, I don't understand why you bought parts from other than DTS. You told me about them a couple years back. You questioned their quality?





GL

 

[Philip]

I know Scott. Everyone here talks about them. Being a $X$ shop I hoped they would have the parts in stock. But they didn't. If I had known it was going to take 3 weeks for the parts to get here. I would have hung up the phone and called DTS in the first place.



Live and learn. I'll stay with my proven parts suppliers from now on.



I have a set of front carrier bearings ground down for setup purposes now.

:-laf

 

[1stgen4evr]

Couple of questions Philip. Do you think these problems are peculiar to the 3:07? Do you think the spiders moved enough to allow that short engagment or is the damage from floating debris? Is your axle set limited slip?



James

 

[Philip]

James this problem could happen to any 60 series. The spiders are the same between the 60 & 61 axles. I don't think the spiders moved enough to get the end of the axle. It has about 1/8" side play in the spiders. I am not sure what caused the damage to the end of the axle. There was nothing but very fine powder in the housing. All on the magnet on the cover. The R&P showed no signs of having debris run threw them.





I wish I could find a 3:08 posi carrier for the 61 or 71.



I know what caused the wear on the spiders and shims. In the winter I normaly lock the hubs and leave them till the bad weather season is over. Looks like the Dana 61 doesn't like free spining the spiders for long periods.



I'll change that practice now. LOL

 

[PToombs]

Philip, the spiders shouldn't spin if the front is locked. The only time they should turn when locked is spinning one tire, or going around a corner. If 1 hub is locked and the other isn't, then they will spin constantly on the pin wearing all that stuff out.

 

[Philip]

Pete I do a lot of in town driving. :-laf :-laf



But it took 8 winters to wear them out. :-laf :-laf

 

[MMiller]

I don't know Philip, if that was the case then all the second gens would have the thrust washer worn out all the time, the spiders always turn. I would also think that an open rear would be worn out every year, from going around corners.



My auto mechanics teacher in high school said that most spider gear failures were from one wheel burnouts. I would not think this is the case for your project.



Michael

 

[Philip]

Michael that is the only reason I can think of for blowing the clearances on the spiders. Normaly my hubs are locked in for about 3 months a year. Most of my driving is city with a lot of turning. You have been to my house and into this little burg.



Those spiders were tight the last time I had the front end apart. That was 5 or 6 years ago. I have only used actual 4X4 a couple of times each winter with that being for a day or so. Moving hay with Jeremy a couple of months ago was the first time I have worked the front axle with a loaded truck. That one time wasn't enough to do that much wear.



My old carrier showed signs of the axle hitting the threw hole in the carrier. So the spiders were moving quite a bit. What was funney was it sounded just like a u-joint problem.



I haven't pulled my old carrier apart to see if the case is wallowed out. I hope not. I kind of like having a spare 3:08 carrier laying around.



It wouldn't suprise me if we don't start seeing some posts in the 2nd gen section from the same problems.

 

[Philip]

Well now to add some more depressing news. I got around to finishing off the front axle. The new axle will not go into the new spiders eather. Found the main reason this time.



Bent left axle tube. :{ :{



That would explain the worn spiders. I also looked over where the axle had hit the threw hole of the old carrier better. It hadn't just touched it. It had worn a bevel into the outer end of the bearing support.



Anyone have a bare 3:08 front housing????