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Front End Bouncing Violently (already have Kore)

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Dieselman,



That was the best DW post I've ever read.



Everything I've experienced with these trucks confirms exactly what you've said.



Thanks for your time.



Kent Kroeker
 
kentkroeker said:
Dieselman,

That was the best DW post I've ever read.

Everything I've experienced with these trucks confirms exactly what you've said.

Thanks for your time.

Kent Kroeker

Thanks Kent :)



I made a small drawing to illustrate my point - lets see if I can attach it.....

Dodge on the left, Ford on the right, 16" total swing, 8" up, 8" down, notice how way out of line the single trailing arm gets vs the dodge.
 
DIESELMAN said:
Thanks Kent :)



I made a small drawing to illustrate my point - lets see if I can attach it.....

Dodge on the left, Ford on the right, 16" total swing, 8" up, 8" down, notice how way out of line the single trailing arm gets vs the dodge.

:D EXO-SKETCH ?
 
No problem with my BFG's on my 04. 5. My 96 (stock) had the DW a few times and the only thing that would stop it from recurring within a few months was balancing the stock tires every few months until I found balancing beads.
 
I appreciate all of the suggestions. I recently had my ball joints checked just before my bumper to bumper expired and they were pretty tight. I also had it aligned a few weeks ago by what I think is a reputable shop. The alignment tech that did the work has also been there for quite a while. I also have the BFG 315 tires and they are almost completely worn out. I would have replaced them by now but can't decide which load range E tire to go with. I really want the Toyo M/T, but cannot locate any to save my life.



Greg -- How do the Dirt Grip tires compare to the M/T? I was looking at those the other day.



Thanks!
 
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DIESELMAN said:
I've had DW with stock suspension, and lifted suspensions, and cured it.



As to geometry, not Exactly, this is true of the FORD front suspension with a SINGLE trailing arm, Dodge has 4 links. On a ford the axle rotates so that lowering the axle (lifting) rotates the axle forward, decreasing caster and necesitating dropped trailing arm brackets equal to the drop of the axle(lift).



On our dodges, the axle is trailed by four links. on each side there is a link above and a link below the axle, these trail back to frame mounting points that are about the same distance apart as they attach to the axle. The effect is that as the axle moves down the lower arm 'pushes' the bottom of the axle tube forward, and the top arm 'pulls' the top of the tube rearward by the same amount, the caster angle does not change.



Now the true geometry is improvised a bit as the spacing isn't the same at both ends of the links, the lengths of the top and bottom arms are offset to account for this and there is a bit of bias so that the caster angle will increase on compression which aids in return to center feel when you are driving over curbs and such.



The actual loss of caster even at 4" of lift is only about 0. 5 degrees, no where near enough to cause DW. (An old Ford F150 swung +/- 5 degrees!).



DW is caused by worn ball joints, tie rod ends, track bar, steering gear, soft or uneven sidewall pressures or stiffness ( want DW, put on BFG 315's and stagger the tire pressure 10 pounds).



Lifting keeps the caster roughly the same, pulls the axle rearward (looks wierd in the wheelwell without extending the trailing arms, really high lifts run out of bar angle/range and need dropped brackets, but not at a resonable 4" lift) and shifts the axle to the side (also strange if you don't change or drop the track bar, but the axle moves side to side during action anyway so the adjustment is only for looks at ride height), and dropping the track bar requires dropping the pitman arm to maintain absolute parallel alignment of the steering and track bars to prevent 'bump' steer.



However, factory alignment sucks and so do most alignment shops. The Caster Cams allow the axle to be twisted all out of proportion causing excessive cross camber caster angles even when overall caster is correct, and tramlining or uneasy feel on a crowned road. If you can't drive your stock truck comfortably with one finger, repair whats wrong, re-align it, then lift it. Don't lift or add 'performance' components to cure the problem or you'll be chasing your tail and cussing your vendor because it will amplify the problem.



DM



That is a very good explaination, I could not explain exactly what I meant, I also looked at the drawing below, pretty cool. The only thing that I think it does not take into account is the control arms are not parallel to the ground when the suspension is at rest, they also do not apear to be parallel to each other in that the spacing on the axle is not the same as where they mount to the frame, my point is if you raise the suspension the front end geometry is not exactly the same and this I would think would be more of a contributing factor to DW and the BFG 315s.
 
DIESELMAN said:
Thanks Kent :)



I made a small drawing to illustrate my point - lets see if I can attach it.....

Dodge on the left, Ford on the right, 16" total swing, 8" up, 8" down, notice how way out of line the single trailing arm gets vs the dodge.



The upper trailing arm is actually about 2" shorter. Run that graphic. There is a significant caster swing. :D Mike
 
Greg Boardman said:
David,

I have been sourcing tires for a while. The Interco company ( Super Swamper) has an E Rated 35" tire. There is also the Parnelli Jones Dirt Grip in a 35" E Rated tire. I should have some of the PJ tires here this week.





Greg



#ad




SSR-60R

35X12. 50R17LT

10 PLY

21/32 TRED DEPTH

10. 6 ACTUAL TREAD WIDTH

35. 3 ACTUAL HEIGHT

12. 3 ACTUAL WIDTH

17x8. 5-11 RECOMENDED RIM

65 MAX INFLATION

3640 MAX Load



not a bad tire, this one is siped and a radial, BUT they SUCK for wet traction and need CLOSE pressure monitoring.

great offroad and about 270 each.
 
Dump the BFG's man... that's the problem... it was mine anyway. The MTR's cured the problem on my 03. That was the only change I made...
 
TexBamBam said:
It's the BFG's causing it...



TBB is right guys,

The DW is most commonly associated with the BFG 315 tire. DW is also linkable to worn steering components. It is important to choose a tire that will hold up to the abuse a CTD truck dishes out in weight alone.



Greg DRC
 
Interesting to see tires get a firm mention reguarding DW, I only have experienced DW since I got my tires rotated, though they're Bridgestone Deuler A/T Revo's @ 265 75 16

I think they're to blame a bit, as well as something steering linkage-ish. But I don't know what to replace next. Still checking this-n-that.





~Matt



PS

Thanks for the great discussion here, I've been learing a lot.
 
i had death wobble in an 03 with 2" puck and 315 bfg's with only 30K it was getting worse. my dads 04 stock everything i notice the slightest wobble though 99% of people would never notice it. i know if he put the 2" puck and 315's he would have the wobble. i talked to thuren and he is coming out with bigdaddy track bar.



note: after lifting i retained stock shocks and this could have s/m to do with it. just my 2 cents



thought i would bring this back to life for those non members who are battling this
 
I saw this one come back & figured I should add my say.



My DW is gone since I put Bilsteen 5100's on and got it alligned. Then I put on new tires 2, which helped. Don's bar is ordered, and should assist in fixing my shot track bar wander.





~Matt
 
At one point I was able to practically eliminate it by very precisely equallizing the BFG 315 tire pressure at 40 psi on both sides. That made a huge difference. I will be getting new tires probably in the spring.
 
Yo Hoot said:
While I was out at Indy this year I made it a point to ask people with lifted third gens if they had problems. None that I asked had any issues and none of them had BFG's.



Yep. "Race suspension" on a 7500 pound truck is a misnomer, unless you're talking about 4x4ing...
 
I am running BFG 37's and I get the DW very bad. My truck has only 17000 miles on it. It has a 6 inch supperlift with 2inch spacers. The DW was very bad a few months ago so we changed my dual steering stableizers to ransho stablizers. That helped for a while. Now my truck is at a shop for the same problem. They did find 2 tierod ends with some play so they are changeing them. Do you think this will fix my problem??
 
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