Front End/Steering slop sources

[dmsexton]

Hey guys, I have a 2013 2500 4x4 and I've been chasing looseness in the steering. So far I've replaced the track bar with a solid Thuren unit, did a full Moog replacement on the entire tie rod assembly, replaced both front wheel bearings and u-joints, replaced steering stabilizer and also installed a new Borgeson steering box from Genos and I still have quite a bit of play or slop.
I've had the truck aligned several times at different shops and none of them have had any issues aligning it, and none of them have said they found anything wrong on the front end.
I do get a slight clunk that I feel in the steering wheel sometimes when driving, not sure if that's related at all.
The steering just feels mushy, as if there is play somewhere between when I turn the steering wheel and the tires actually move.
It will wander on the road as well, although it is significantly better than when I bought it. I'd really like to get it figured out.
Thanks!

 

[cerberusiam]

Looking at the steering shaft from the box to the steering wheel. IIRC there some nylon connectors\bushings that can wear introducing slack. Rather than the Borgeson you probably should have updated to the 2016+ fast ratio steering box. That has been a better solution that anything at this point.

 

[dmsexton]

You're talking about this correct?
https://www.genosgarage.com/product/ram-cummins-borgeson-steering-shaft-000954/steering-shaft
I wish I'd have known about the 2016+ box... would have gone that route. Although I can't say I have any complaints about the box in there now.

 

[Topzide]

@dmsexton, Did you have them align it to the Thuren Spec? With everything else that you did, that would be the most important for our trucks!

 

[mpaulson]

You didn’t mention ball joints. Have they been properly checked or replaced?
As mentioned above, check all parts on the steering shaft. I once found that a shop that had worked on the steering hadn’t tightened down the clamp bolt on the steering box input shaft!. Check pitman arm nut torque and the box mount bolts for proper tightness.

 

[dmsexton]

@Topzide I did do all the Thuren measurements when I installed the trackbar, honestly can't remember if I had them align it to Thuren's specs... but that is important and I can get that taken care of.
@mpaulson that's a good call on checking the steering box bolt torque, pitman arm and steering shaft clamp bolt.
I think I may go ahead and order the Borgeson steering shaft. It would be nice to know for sure that the steering shaft is 100% tight and also wouldn't have to worry about it in the future either.
Any of you guys have the Borgeson shaft and what do you think of it?

 

[petersonj]

I think I may go ahead and order the Borgeson steering shaft

I highly recommend to NOT use the Borgeson steering shaft. I installed one and then removed it 153,000 miles later. Wished I would have never installed it.

Here is what I wrote in my maintenance log after I removed the Borgeson steering shaft and replaced it with a Dorman OEM style 153,000 miles later:

Replace Borgeson steering shaft (still operational). This shaft is poorly designed with 10 set screw / jam nuts to hold parts together, which makes it a high maintenance item. Set screws are difficult to inspect or to tighten after the installation of steering shaft. The slip joint offers too much friction and has to be disassembled to grease. After driving a few thousand miles, the slip joint gets sticky and affects steering performance and needs to be cleaned and re-greased - not a simple task. It took 25,000 miles of driving the first time to figure this out. I also feel that set screw type clamping pulls the clamped components off-center, which is felt in the steering wheel.

The Dorman replacement steering shaft appears to be of very good quality. Only two OEM style clamps for installation (keeps components centered) which makes for very easy installation / removal and is virtually maintenance free. The rag type joint removes vibrations transmitted from the road. This shaft is quiet and very smooth - far better than the Borgeson steering shaft.

The Borgeson shaft cost $270.00; the Dorman shaft cost $127.00. Sometimes I learn the hard way.

I think this is the Borgeson steering shaft that fits your truck. Note the 7 set screws with jam nuts. This method of clamping will not be your friend.

- John

 

[jkern]

Good luck! I have been fighting this for a while...replaced all the ball joints, both u-joints, steering box, talked to the guys at CJC off-road, for a non-lifted, regular sized tire truck, they recommended the OEM tie rod set up with a solid trac bar. i also installed the bushing in the steering shaft. All of this helped quite a bit, but it still isn't perfect and i think it is mostly because of a solid front axle and other wear components that over time get sloppy too...radius arm bushings, body/frame mounts, etc. My experience, you can replace the whole front end and it will be better, but it won't be as good as new.

 

[dmsexton]

I went with the Borgeson shaft, and it made a marked improvement. Once i got the factory steering shaft out I was able to see and feel a little play in it's u-joints, which I'm sure is magnified by the time it translates into the front end/steering. I painted the Borgeson before I installed it, carefully tightened everything up and used blue loctite. I plan on regularly checking everything on there to make sure it's not loosening up.
It still is not perfect to me though. I know the front ends on our trucks aren't the worlds best design, but I'd say it is still not factory.
The body/frame mounts are on my radar to replace. Haven't done them before but I'd like to replace them. My truck has about 227k on it now and drives great, but I'm sure those mounts do not help the cause.
I also want to replace the upper and lower control arms as time permits.

 

[brillmtb1]

Inhave the same issue i believe with many parts also upgraded. Truck in shop getting steering box replaced Fingers crossed. I could grab replaced drag link and sterring shaft with aon moving the wheel back and forth with distinct knocking. This must be the box but pick uo truck tomorrow

 

[brillmtb1]

So I have been chasing similar issues. drag link was updated to new OEM version some time ago back when they suggested welding the nut. Thuren bar put in and Borgersen steering shaft. In the end my "clucking" seemed to be the steering box and I am only at 82K. Dealer replaced it and my heated seat went out so they did that as well under warranty that expires end of the month so just under the wire. Seems to have fixed the issue.

 

[brillmtb1]

OK, figured out the metal clucking feel in steering wheel after research and getting a 2x2 receiver pipe inserted into FRONT reciever and having him bounce the front of the truck. Not the intermediate shaft, drag link, my worn lower ball joint, sway bar links, etc like you read on line.....it was the thuren track bar. I bet either they didnt get it up to the full 215 lbs or after some break in it needed to be rechecked. Man it took a while and dodge mechanics didnt find it or private mechanic nor tire shop.

Using the force of the lever arm I could get under and listen and feel where it was coming from...fingers crossed I am done now

 

[dmsexton]

Glad to hear you got your clunk fixed! I think I had a similar issue, didn't get mine torqued enough initially but found it later. My truck still has vague steering. Each thing I am replacing is making it better, but definitely still has some slop. I'm planning on getting Thuren's upper and lower control arm kit when I can afford it, which will be followed at some point with some quality ball joints.

 

[brillmtb1]

For not being a mechanic and doing a lot of work on my own I am sure becoming familiar with this rig

 

[brillmtb1]

I did do the ball joints with carli, some wander after but they said that is normal for the breakin period. My front end should be good for the rest of my life now

 

[dmsexton]

I would love to have either the Thuren's or Carli ball joints. I think they're both quality products. I would also consider the rebuildable ones that Genos sells.

 

[Ozymandias]

I did do the ball joints with carli, some wander after but they said that is normal for the breakin period. My front end should be good for the rest of my life now

You aren't going to sell it soon like you said in the other thread?

 

[Topzide]

@brillmtb1, Now that's thinking outside the box on this issue! Sometimes you need to scratch your head on how to diagnose the problem! That's a good way to replicate road bounce to listen, and feel for the issues. Nice tip, thanks.

 

[brillmtb1]

Well I really would like to get a 2025 5500 and make it my camper truck with storage and not have to worry about the downsides of my AF811 on my one ton but then there is the cost....ouch. I also dont want to get a 5500 if they change the model year in 2026 such as no zf transmission in 2025 so I may need to sit on the sideline. Then there is this LITTLE problem that my wife wants a new car, then I take her OLD car as my daily driver.

I may live in Reno but the kids havent found any gold or silver in my backyard yet

 

[petersonj]

I may live in Reno but the kids havent found any gold or silver in my backyard yet

Yes they have - they just haven't told you.

- John