Off Roading Front Sway Bar Disconnects

[sam-eye-am]

I figgured

Don,



Thanks for the reply. I saw some pics of your setup both before and after the bumper mod. Your front end always seemed higher than mine... but that must be due to the 35s and leveling it out with the air bags.



I'm running nearly the same setup in the camper as you. I also have two T-145s, though not as nice of an inverter and only the single solar panel. With the exception of the microwave and power top, I too think I have nearly every option on mine.



I have been wondering if the way my truck handles with the camper on it was normal and my sensitivity/caution about it was just lack of experience with that kind of a setup. I have towed big trailers and driven Class C's, but this is my first TC and I guess I was expecting better handling from everything I had heard about the lower COG with the outfitter and the basement tanks.



As far as the sway bar in the back... I too was kind of worried about off highway... but I figured I'd see if it makes a difference around town and on the narrow twisty pavement in the mountains to see if I wanted to keep it and figure out a way to make it quick disconnect friendly. I'll post up when I am back to report on how it handled.



I'll keep an eye out for you new trip report. I drove the WRT a few years ago in a rental jeep from in town. From what I remember of the trail, I don't know if I'd have the guts/skills to take my camper down there... so seeing the trip report for a more difficult trail should be interesting!



By the way... what psi do you run in the bags down the highway? With the camper on mine... I find about 55-60 psi makes it level and much better handling wise, but haven't experimented with any higher pressures as of yet.



Sam

 

[DonCurley]

Sam,

It's just my opinion, but my guess is that your truck handling with the camper on board is "normal", and that it is likely your sensitivity to the loaded ride characteristics that is causing you concern. Just think what the ride and stability would be if you had a large and heavy hard-sided camper on board! But I certainly do not want to sound like I am some old salt at all of this ... beyond 6 initial months with the Power Wagon, the 3500 is our first full-sized pickup and the Apex 8 is our first camper (with no previous RVing experience). In some ways, I think you just can't fight the physics at play in terms of loading your bed up with something heavy that increases your vertical COG. In my case, I sometimes feel like I've got a battleship on my back, so I have just had to accept it for what it is and significantly alter my driving techniques and approaches (when I am more used to being a sports car driver). This has also been true off-road as well, where I have to occasionally remind myself that I am not in my Jeep Wrangler (or perhaps I should say, the rig sometimes pointedly reminds me of this fact). Bottom-line ... IMO, we are both lucky to have a relatively light and low vertical COG camper combined with a heavy-duty Dodge 3500 pickup. The way I look at it, almost anything else (with either a heavier/larger TC and/or a lesser truck), would unavoidably present a less stable rig and would further increase any pucker factor involved.

In terms of our air bag pressures, we used to have to run between 80 and 90 psi with the Apex 8 on the Power Wagon. However, those high pressures were mostly needed to counteract the rear-end sag and general instability resulting from the overly flexy off-road springs (that had less spring rate to them than even stock Dodge 2500 rear springs). For the 3500, we have experimented with a lot of different air bag pressures as a function of rear ride height, driving comfort, and trying to maintain adequate contact with the overload springs. Since the suspension on our 3500 is much stiffer and more capable in the load carrying capacity department, less pressure has been needed. We have been able to go down as far as 30 psi, but we didn't like the ride characteristics. Using 70 to 80 psi was too much, as it raised up the rear end with too much of a rake and the overloads were not making any contact. We found that 40 to 50 psi was pretty much the sweet spot for us. However, when the front-end leveling kit went on (raising us up by 1. 25 inches in the front), more pressure was needed in the air bags to level things up in the rear. At this point, we are now running at an average of just under 60 psi ... which equates to 50 psi on the passenger side bag and 65 psi on the drivers side bag (to also level things up side-to-side). We have the Firestone compressor, tank, and in-cab controls, which makes this kind of experimentation fairly painless.

BTW, I also run my Rancho RS9000XL shocks at 9 for both the front and rear when the camper is on board, with the Toyo tires inflated to their maximum pressure of 65 psi (and I have not had to air down off-road yet, as the fully inflated traction from the Toyo's has been absolutely superb in even very rough off-road conditions).

Don

 

[Baja_Mike]

For my smaller 4x4 vehicles over the years (mostly Jeeps), I have always had some form of front sway bar disconnects to allow for more suspension flex and articulation when off-road. With my '07 3500, I would like to do the same thing. However, after looking high and low on the Internet, I have basically struck out. I found a couple of custom shop type places that in fact made some manual quick-connect/disconnect units that took the place of factory end links, but they were too small for the rather beefy front sway bar set up on a 3500. I have also been looking at adapting sway bar disconnects that were designed for other vehicles, but haven't come up with anything that is a close enough match.



I realize I could get under there and unbolt my sway bar end links to get the same effect, however, I wanted something that was more user-friendly and easy to reconnect once I am back on-highway. Anyway, if anyone has any potential sources for manual sway bar disconnects (or has any other ideas), I would sure appreciate hearing about them.



Thanks,

Don

I think this would be a good cost effective upgrade for you. The bar is substantially softer than the stock bar. Dodge builds the stock bars very stiff because they want to induce understeer from the factory to help protect the general public from spinning out on wet roads. By reducing the spring rate of the front sway bar you will experience better front end grip during cornering and a smoother ride. We are currently still testing and should have these available in the next month or two.



#ad

 

[DonCurley]

I think this would be a good cost effective upgrade for you. The bar is substantially softer than the stock bar. Dodge builds the stock bars very stiff because they want to induce understeer from the factory to help protect the general public from spinning out on wet roads. By reducing the spring rate of the front sway bar you will experience better front end grip during cornering and a smoother ride. We are currently still testing and should have these available in the next month or two.



#ad

This may be a difficult question to answer, but do you think that someone with a fully loaded pop-up camper in their bed will suffer any adverse handling issues when on-highway with the softer Carli sway bar system? I am just wondering if it might be better to have the stiffer factory sway bar under those circumstances. Beyond that, is the Carli system adjustable like a Currie Anti-Rock for Jeeps? Since I am still unemployed, I continue to have to watch my money, but I would be interested in knowing what a system like this would end up costing.



Thanks,

Don

 

[Baja_Mike]

This may be a difficult question to answer, but do you think that someone with a fully loaded pop-up camper in their bed will suffer any adverse handling issues when on-highway with the softer Carli sway bar system? I am just wondering if it might be better to have the stiffer factory sway bar under those circumstances. Beyond that, is the Carli system adjustable like a Currie Anti-Rock for Jeeps? Since I am still unemployed, I continue to have to watch my money, but I would be interested in knowing what a system like this would end up costing.



Thanks,

Don

It's hard to tell from that pic but there are 2 positions to choose from. So when you need the extra sway control you can move the link closer to the front pivot. So far I haven't noticed anymore body roll with this bar on the soft setting. Ride is much improved and cornering is significantly better. We are looking around mid 400's for the price but I am not 100% sure since we are still only playing around with prototype pieces.

 

[DonCurley]

OK ... thanks Baja Mike

 

[sam-eye-am]

Don,

I took the camper out over the weekend up to Downieville, CA. Lots of narrow and twisty mountain driving. No real off highway unless you include the little bit of in and out of the unimproved campground area.

The rear swaybar addition was certainly noticeable... . or since it had been nearly 3 months since I was out with the camper on the same roads... maybe I am getting more accustomed to driving it. Anyway, it certainly felt like a good improvement as I felt a lot more confident in the direction that the truck was going to go in the twistys.

Now I'll just need to try and research some sort of quick disconnect method.

 

[DonCurley]

Don,



I took the camper out over the weekend up to Downieville, CA. Lots of narrow and twisty mountain driving. No real off highway unless you include the little bit of in and out of the unimproved campground area.



The rear swaybar addition was certainly noticeable... . or since it had been nearly 3 months since I was out with the camper on the same roads... maybe I am getting more accustomed to driving it. Anyway, it certainly felt like a good improvement as I felt a lot more confident in the direction that the truck was going to go in the twistys.



Now I'll just need to try and research some sort of quick disconnect method.

Sounds good Sam. Let me know what you end up coming up with in terms of quick disconnects.

 

[BHanna]

I know this thread's a little old but I have been off the net for a couple years. I may be the guy mentioned earlier who tried the JKS disconnects. The ones I used were for a Jeep TJ. After a few years, I've had no problems with them. JKS did not recommend using them because they said they weren't designed for the weight of a truck but I've abused them a little and they've been fine.

The Jeep TJ has a swaybar that's similar to a 3rd Gen however I have a 4" lift and used the disconnects for a stock height Jeep. If your truck isn't lifted, they probably wouldn't work.

One other thing to think about is that I had to drill out the axle mounting holes just a little. I think the stock setup would still go back on since the hole is tapered and I didn't have to drill out the whole taper but it may be tough to go back if you don't like the setup.

 

[Regcabguy]

Suspension.

I can't stress enough the need to go with a manufacturer's complete system. I ran a Kore Chase system on my 98. 5 w/2000# popup. The valving was too soft and Sean Lorenz assisted me greatly by revalving the rears which transformed the truck. I'm running his 2. 25 setup w/rear camper valving on the '07 and 23% stiffer front springs. My standard cab is the ideal platform for carrying a popup with nearly 50/50 weight distribution. Carli LT airbags in the rear were an enormous improvement over the Firestone"rocks" also. While entirely adequate for current usage,the 2. 25 setup is going to be replaced soon with Carli's 2. 5 system w/their "piston technology" and jounce bumpers. Sage and Mike can transform your truck with one of their setups. The shock valving seems to be the most crucial element. It's a lot of pesos but in this case you get what you pay for and Carli Suspension delivers.