Fuel additives

[Dieselnerd]

or was it just recognition of the necessity for an anti-gel additive considering the filter placement at the rear of the frame where gelling is assured without proper additive treatment?

- Ed

The rear filter on the 2013 and newer has a heater in it to prevent gelling.

 

[TCDiesel]

I'm encouraged to see somebody is attempting to do it right. Of course in your area, there's probably less room for error. Down here it's probably more of a crap-shoot. After I replaced my last set of injectors I installed additional filtration and took this issue with lubricity pretty seriously. I recognize all of this is an individual decision, but I'm going to do any and all things possible to avoid going through that experience again. I'm just like Newsa, OCD.

I doubt anyone in Cummins' higher echelon plays golf with anybody from Power Service. Their decision to recommend PS was probably based on it's availability on the shelf. But, take me with a grain of salt, I'm certainly not an expert on the subject. I am curious why Cummins finally made a decision to recommend snake oil after so many years. Was it based on their participation in the Engine Manufacturers Association and the acceptable maximum wear index of 460 verses the apparent disparaging and detrimental ASTM standard of 520, or was it just recognition of the necessity for an anti-gel additive considering the filter placement at the rear of the frame where gelling is assured without proper additive treatment?

- Ed

My guess it was storage and handling, intermediates prolong Storage...You have to be really careful on Intermediates May cause the additives package that was refined to separate, In Summer months or temps above 0+In MN I don't prefer or recommend intermediates, its just to risky to mess with the refined Biodiesel package mandated in MN. Another issue I have with intermediates, they have been blended to masked problems, The user thinks it helped or fix the problem just to find out later it would have been less dramatic to have fix the problem before that 3000 mile family vacation. Its nice to have a resource like the TDR1 were in general Seasoned Diesel owners relief our selves of all the Cheerleading , Fan boy fake Garbage you read about at Places like the ram1500diesel.com. I'm banned from that site for condemning the Mods for bias Personal choice and promoting it like it was God delivered to them.

 

[Newsa]

The rear filter on the 2013 and newer has a heater in it to prevent gelling.

I wonder how necessary or useful the diesel filter heater is.

Doesn't the fuel system route (recirculate) warmed fuel from the engine compartment back to the rear if the truck? To the fuel tank?

Seems like that warmed fuel would prevent any gelling in the filter? And prevents gelling in the tank pump.

If your filter is gelled, you would need to get it running for the filter heat element to work anyway. So, not sure the filter heat element is really that much of a benefit. If you can't get it started, the filter heat element won't do much.

 

[gsbrockman]

I wonder how necessary or useful the diesel filter heater is.

There was a HUGE amount of gelling issues due to programming issues related to the rear separator heaters not being turned on when the 2013 trucks came out.....It is absolutely necessary given the media the fuel must travel through.

Doesn't the fuel system route (recirculate) warmed fuel from the engine compartment back to the rear if the truck? To the fuel tank?

Seems like that warmed fuel would prevent any gelling in the filter? And prevents gelling in the tank pump.

So......what about those times when the truck is not used for a few days at a time.....and / or a huge drop in temperature arises?

If your filter is gelled, you would need to get it running for the filter heat element to work anyway. So, not sure the filter heat element is really that much of a benefit. If you can't get it started, the filter heat element won't do much.

Killllllin me..................

 

[JR]

Filter Heaters are definitely helpful, fuel can sit dormant and not gel but under the right circumstances gel up when being pushed through a filter being that's the most restrictive point in the system. Seen it happen many times.

 

[Killgore]

A lot of good thoughts and some very good answers on this topic. I, for one, am not a petro-chemist and couldn't begin to evaluate the chemistry and synergisms that may or may not be influenced with the introduction of an after-market additive, especially with bio-diesel. I definitely agree that these compounds will mask a problem. Before my injectors failed, I experienced an unusual amount of smoke when cranking a cold engine. The addition of some Diesel Kleen seemed to correct the issue, however, within three months the smoke turned black and the engine started to miss. I never slowed down but headed straight to the shop.

I suppose in the back of my mind I am still concerned about lubricity and mix up my additives with an occasional dose of 2-cycle. Does my mileage improve? The greatest influence on mileage appears to be located in my boot. That being said, I do notice that the engine seems to be quieter when running 2-cycle.

 

[jhenderson]

I wonder how necessary or useful the diesel filter heater is.

Doesn't the fuel system route (recirculate) warmed fuel from the engine compartment back to the rear if the truck? To the fuel tank?

Seems like that warmed fuel would prevent any gelling in the filter? And prevents gelling in the tank pump.

If your filter is gelled, you would need to get it running for the filter heat element to work anyway. So, not sure the filter heat element is really that much of a benefit. If you can't get it started, the filter heat element won't do much.

How many times must you be told? When your already in a hole, QUIT DIGGING.

 

[MarkEagleUSA]

I wonder how necessary or useful the diesel filter heater is.

Doesn't the fuel system route (recirculate) warmed fuel from the engine compartment back to the rear if the truck? To the fuel tank?

Seems like that warmed fuel would prevent any gelling in the filter? And prevents gelling in the tank pump.

If your filter is gelled, you would need to get it running for the filter heat element to work anyway. So, not sure the filter heat element is really that much of a benefit. If you can't get it started, the filter heat element won't do much.

If it's close to or below 0° and my truck has sat for the weekend, how is that "warmed fuel" supposed to help me?

I'm new to diesel ownership but I've been around diesel's for over 30 years. I firmly believe the winter anti-gel is a requirement in colder climates. As for the other additives, I don't know for certain whether they work or not. All I can say is my '03 seems to run quieter and is more responsive since I started using the Power Service products. I don't put them in every tank, but maybe every 3rd or 4th. With the colder weather arriving here in New England, I'll probably start using the anti-gel in every other tank.

 

[Newsa]

If it's close to or below 0° and my truck has sat for the weekend, how is that "warmed fuel" supposed to help me?.

It won't. But neither will.the rear fuel filter heater. Truck has to be running for it to heat. And anyone who knows resistance heaters take awhile with electricity running through them to actually heat.

 

[JR]

Your missing the point. The first place fuel will gel is at the filter as it is being pumped through it. The fuel in the tank can be perfectly fine, it's at the point it passes through the filter is the first place a problem will show.
Do you think they just threw the heater in for the hell of it? Sheesh.

 

[Newsa]

Your missing the point. The first place fuel will gel is at the filter as it is being pumped through it. The fuel in the tank can be perfectly fine, it's at the point it passes through the filter is the first place a problem will show.
Do you think they just threw the heater in for the hell of it? Sheesh.

I didn't realize that operators were experiencing filter gel problems to the extent that Brockman said. But I don't dispute it either. I just didn't see complaints about it.

The grid heater WILL heat before the engine starts. The fuel filter heater won't. It may help in below zero temps because of the surface area of the filter and the fact that metal casing transfers heat fast and because the flow is a bit slower through the filter. But it won't help a cold truck start if It's a frozen filter

 

[gsbrockman]

We had an extensive conversation here http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/2...rear-frame-mounted-fuel-heater-operation.html

There were threads on TDR as well.

 

[cullen]

So I am new to my 17' 6.7, and I am glad to hear it has a heater in the rear filter. I will keep it plugged in at night this time of year through the end of March. My last truck (as of 2 weeks ago before purchasing the 3500) was a 98.5 5.9 24v. I live at 9830 feet in the lower Rockies of northern New Mexico. The 5.9 froze up at least 6 or 7 times since I became its owner in 2012. Each time it was approximately minus 10/15 degrees overnight and into the early morning. I mean 2 to 5 psi of fuel pressure kind of froze up. Engine would fire then die after about a minute. It looks like this: downstream of the FASS pump, the actual line on the filter housing on the side of the engine flows a stream of fuel that is approximately 1/8" in diameter. This is the old style FASS that simply looks like a little starter with a block of aluminum that houses the two gears on one end with two I/O nipples. FASS mounted on the frame back by the tank. I religiously used/use the Power Service in the white bottle.

On these occasions, I believe I did not have enough in the tank of fuel for it to be effective. I used/use it at every fill up during these winters here. 10 ounces per 30 gallons, and every other tank 16 ounces (half bottle). After this happened a couple times, and with the tech help line of Geno's, I figured out it was the small inline metal filter between the FASS pump and the fuel pickup assembly on top of the tank (PIA to get to!). I deleted this metal filter and its position. I added line and moved it outside the frame close to the FASS pump and started using a little plastic WIX filter. The plastic filter allows you to see the gelled fuel which actually looks like candle wax. When this filter is visibly waxed/gelled/frozen, I simply pulled it off and replaced it. They cost like 2 bucks.

The Power Service product absolutely works, but only if the ratio is correct. I don't use it at all once spring comes. Before I figured out the issue with the little, metal, inline filter, I had a thawing procedure. I would back my 97' Land Rover Discovery up to the tank side of the bed of the 2500. I would then attach a dryer flex hose to the LR exhaust and clip it to the frame of the 2500. The LR was very "steamy" at very low temps until it really warmed up and the cold start injector shut off. This steamy exhaust would thaw out the Ram after about 15 minutes.

 

[JR]

But it won't help a cold truck start if It's a frozen filter

If the fuel in the filter is gelled as it sits stationary, then there is a very good possibility everything in the lines and tank is too and will require a heated shop to thaw things out. The purpose of the heater is to heat the fuel as it flows through the filter.

 

[cullen]

I guess I was just lucky with the changing of the inline filter working each time.

 

[Jared Herzog]

My truck has 28,000 miles. It has not had one single drop of fuel ran through it without optilube since i purchased it new. I run 6 oz optilube xdp and 3 oz optilube xl to 3/4 to full tank of fuel.
In the past the power service literature bragged that it was neither an emulsifier or demulsifier. The new literature on their site does not even touch on this anymore since the Cummins recommendation. Power service use to claim it would chemically surround water and pass it safely through the system. What ?! I want both of my water separators to function as designed and strip water from the fuel. This is more easily accomplished when water clumps into larger droplets not when it is dissolved into the fuel and passed through the expensive injection pump and injectors.
What i want with an additive is to gain lubricity, increase cetane, and DEMULSIFY water. If the fuel at the pump is fresh, high quality, and containing the additive package that it should then no additive is needed. But, in todays lazy world where no one cares about my truck like i do i take precautions. On every tank. Why only strip water from one tank. Why not add lubricity to every tank. The injection pump prefers slippery fuel every gallon. Not every other and not every third.
I have heard that the fuel stations are supposed to add additives at point of sale. IMO they can not even put paper in the bathroom or credit card machine. How can i expect them to add chemicals when they would rather be on their cell phone.
I researched this issue and went with stanadyne in 07 when i had two injection pumps fail on my 05. Each pump had lasted about 10,000 miles once the ULSD came out. It lacked lubricity and the seals shrunk in the pump until fuel leaked all over the casing. So i researched while running a quart of transmission fluid through each tank. That lasted three or so tanks before i went with stanadyne. In 12 i got an LML and found optilube had won a test. The test is debated today still. That is when i started running optilube and have in my diesels since 12.
It could be snake oil. But, it makes me feel better and it is cheap. My truck actually sounds much quieter than my brothers truck side by side. We both have 15’s. He runs no additives.
There is no need for additives to make it out of warranty. I expect my plan will benefit me and my truck once in the customer pay period of the ownership experience.
Just pick a plan and stick to it. Nothing is guaranteed.

 

[Killgore]

Googling "paraffin wax in #2 diesel fuel" will bring up numerous articles on the properties of diesel fuel, cloud points, gelling, etc., and why filters are generally the initial source of restriction to the flow of fuel. After reading several of these articles, it's pretty easy to appreciate the importance of properly treated fuel, heaters or not.

 

[Regcabguy]

According to a fuel transporter I spoke to the additive is mixed in at the tank farm which is a few miles from my place.
Same with gasoline.
Mine's had very limited additive since the introduction of ULSD. I did run Amalgamated through it for awhile.

 

[Killgore]

And yes, Jared, all of us seek a comfort zone without knowing fully where it lies. This aggravating fuel that we contend with varies by temperate zone, region, season, and of course, formulation. In many cases, what works well right here, doesn't do squat over there. If we could depend on a consistent product all of this talk about admixtures wouldn't come up. At least, all of us come away with a better understanding of the complexities through discussions like this.

 

[TCDiesel]

Investigate matters, Check with local refinery on What they recommended , Check drop sheets at all Fuel stops (I do when convenient) the ONLY way to correctly remove water (Correctly) are encapsulating or Aqua-sorb filters (Illegal to install on direct injection filter system on combustion engines) So Bypass or transfer system is needed. IMO its a waste of Money and time to use spin on water separating Filters.

3 weeks old and 882 miles