Fuel additives

[Killgore]

Metalhead, please understand that most of us on this thread are OCD and recognize that we live in an imperfect world, LOL. If everybody was responsible, didn't make mistakes, etc. we wouldn't be having this discussion. But, it does remind me of one large retailer here in Alabama who use to consistently cause me to roll my eyes when I filled up at their stations (I no longer stop there.). Understand that I always fill my ATI-46 auxiliary tank and let it feed the OEM tank and I only fill it after it runs empty. It actually holds approximately 40 gallons, allowing for head-room I suppose. Regardless of where and when, I can only pump 40 gallons into that tank when it's empty, except when I stop at Alibaba's and the Forty Thieves. Strangely, my tank consistently holds 44 gallons of their diesel. Hmm...

Okay, OKAY! I confess to living in a corrupt, incompetent and politically inbred state where infractions are overlooked due to insufficient enforcement or perhaps something else that I hesitate to accuse them of. However, my point is that if Alibaba is going to be allowed to slide on the calibration of their pumps, is there anybody that actually gives a flip when it comes to adding additives, maintaining a 40- cetane rating, or for that matter anything else.

We do have a couple of interesting football teams. War Eagle!

- Ed

 

[PT02063]

My two cents...my family has been using Stanadyne since 1977 with zero issues. Dad used it in his 1977 International Transtar COE with the 290 Cummins, and he never had to change a filter on the road due to gelling. Growing up in Alaska, one realizes how important their Winter 1000 formula can be for extreme service protection at -65. I used it in my 2001 Ram 2500 CTD, 2004 Ram 2500 CTD and my Duramax, and never had fuel gelling issues even though the truck sat outside at -30 or -40 with just a block heater plugged in to start them.

In the lower 49, especially the lower half where I'm located now, one can easily ensure no problems using their Performance formula...IMO. I purchase it by the case from Amazon and it's cheaper than anywhere one I've found.

 

[m37]

Except for anti-gel or products to eliminate water, I think it is a gamble to use any additives as the fuel companies can change the chemical makeup of their fuel at any time, as new additives become available, to improve their product (price and or performance). You can’t argue that the fuel already contains lubricity improvers due to USL diesel. If you add your own aftermarket additives there is a chance that it could react to what the company used in the fuel, whether immediately, or at a later date (when the company changes the chemical makeup of the ad package). Therefore you are spending your money and handling a potentially hazardous product on a theory that it makes the end result better. Most trucking companies just treat for water and their engines have no problems. Most owners of CTD just drive um.....

 

[Killgore]

I sincerely doubt that any great strides in additives have entered the picture since the Germans did the original R&D during WWII in their attempts to synthesize gasoline and diesel from coal oil. Again, looking at the MSDS' of all the more prominent additives, one can easily conclude that they all use the same agents, in varying percentages.

Trusting that everything goes as directed during the day with management looking on, guess what happens at night when the transport drivers batch their own load? Even BIG NASTY, who was a lead driver, has admitted that on occasion he has forgotten to throw the package in the tank. (Somebody correct me if I have misquoted him.)

Now given all of that, everybody that drives a pre-2007 Cummins should be fully aware that the fuel delivery system wasn't designed to handle ULSD. Virtually every company that does after-market repairs to fuel delivery systems recommends one additive or another based on their own observations concerning wear and damage.

The inherent problem is that the ASTM Standard of 520 microns of wear during the scar test is at a point where engine damage begins, it is not at the 460 micron maximum recommended by the Engine Manufacturers Association. With 50% of the fuel testing at over 520, and leading authorities stating U.S. and Canadian fuel as some of the worst in the world for lubricity, I doubt we can be accused of yelling "Wolf".

Now, recognizing that in some areas compliance and/or enforcement is negligible, you have to conclude that many of us have legitimate concerns. To put it another way, we don't have any idea about what we are buying. Are we getting bio-diesel or not? What is the actual cetane rating? Was the lubricity or anti-gel agent added in the proper proportions? Are we paying for a gallon and getting a gallon? etc. And, all of this does not negate our concerns about a possible synergism between additives as you have pointed out.

Let me add that I'm not wishing to start a war and I apologize if I have come across that way. I am certainly open to suggestions and would appreciate anyone's thoughts on this subject. In the meantime, I'll just continue to dump a few ounces in the tank and roll on....and hope I'm doing the right thing.

- Ed

 

[Jared Herzog]

Except for anti-gel or products to eliminate water, I think it is a gamble to use any additives as the fuel companies can change the chemical makeup of their fuel at any time, as new additives become available, to improve their product (price and or performance). You can’t argue that the fuel already contains lubricity improvers due to USL diesel. If you add your own aftermarket additives there is a chance that it could react to what the company used in the fuel, whether immediately, or at a later date (when the company changes the chemical makeup of the ad package). Therefore you are spending your money and handling a potentially hazardous product on a theory that it makes the end result better. Most trucking companies just treat for water and their engines have no problems. Most owners of CTD just drive um.....

How would you handle filling up at 1/4 or 1/2 tank and getting fuel at a different station from where the previous gallons originated? Are their additives the same? If not will the different stations additives play nice with each other and mix together?
The amount we add will do no harm. It just brings the quality up into the minimal range where it needs to be anyway. I just do not see retailers going above and beyond. They want cheap and just enough to get by to maximize profits.

 

[PT02063]

Except for anti-gel or products to eliminate water, I think it is a gamble to use any additives as the fuel companies can change the chemical makeup of their fuel at any time, as new additives become available, to improve their product (price and or performance). You can’t argue that the fuel already contains lubricity improvers due to USL diesel. If you add your own aftermarket additives there is a chance that it could react to what the company used in the fuel, whether immediately, or at a later date (when the company changes the chemical makeup of the ad package). Therefore you are spending your money and handling a potentially hazardous product on a theory that it makes the end result better. Most trucking companies just treat for water and their engines have no problems. Most owners of CTD just drive um.....

Nice thought but I've worked in the oil industry for three of the largest refiners in the U.S. since 1989 and the last thing they worry about are additives in diesel. I've seen first hand when margins go to hell, because of low oil price, that the additives are the first casualty as they are a cost which is not mandated by the government or any other regulatory entity. When is the last time you saw any of the majors advertising diesel additives like they do gasoline additives? They are rare because they don't want to make public commitments which they are not willing to commit for sake of their bottom line. I appreciate your opinion but your over-generalization that "owners of CTD just drive um" is a little naive but you, like each of us, are free to run your CTD as you see fit. I've experienced first hand the benefit of additives in extreme cold weather and will continue to use them versus going on blind faith that the refiner is sharing his profits with me via additives.

 

[m37]

I did state that winterizing the fuel was important (if you operate in an area that has temps below 20 deg.). When I said most owners of CTD just drive um it was without hard facts just observing and talking to fleet owners and private owners. It would be interesting to compare membership numbers of this forum (which most you would think use fuel additives) to sales numbers of CTD vehicles which most don't use fuel (lubricity) additives. That may give a ballpark idea. I wouldn't totally discount the opinions of "Fuel Pump Shops", but they only see the failures which due to 28 years of Dodge using the CTD, are plentiful (like when you read reviews of a product, if your happy you don't take the time to write about it, but if it is defective you tell the world). Out of all the post I read on the "High Mileage Club", not one mentioned fuel additives. Here is a link if your interested:

http://turbodiesel.cumminsnewsletters.com/tag/high-mileage-club/

Other thoughts, If a fuel company got connected to failing to maintain correct level of fuel additives, their sales would crash. Something they couldn't afford.
I agonize on whether to add fuel lube or not. I just think of the people that add in engine oil additives and after talking to engineers when i had the opportunity, they stated you could cause problems with what additives are already in the oil. I just assume this warning may carry though to fuel lube additives.

 

[Killgore]

I like to think the most knowledgeable owners reside on this forum. There are a multitude of individuals from many different disciplines who are regular contributors and I highly respect their opinions. Yes, when I first bought my truck I thought I was looking at a steep learning curve which I was, however, this forum and those who regularly post on it made it a fairly enjoyable experience, and of course, I am grateful. Do they always have the right answers? Yep, so far they have, LOL. TDR is an outstanding resource!

- Ed

 

[Newsa]

Power Service is ok but, just a tad harsh compared to Stanadyn. TALK TO A FUEL SHOP! I use PS Bio Kleen if fuel is setting for a period of time in metal tanks.

I did have a fuel leak after using Power Service BioKleen (just a couple of table spoons) and Power Service Diesel kleen + Cetane (16 oz) . I don't know if it is because it is harsh or just an anecdotal coincidence and just correlation, (not causal). I had used BioKleen previously by itself. But when combining these 2 power service products, a fuel module (That's what the service dept called it) began leaking profusely. It appears the module was near the top of the tank because it was spilling from somewhere I couldn't see and (it was) running down all sides of the tank.

 

[Too Tall]

This is what the manual says: Commercially available fuel additives are not necessary
for the proper operation of your diesel engine.

 

[Jared Herzog]

This is what the manual says: Commercially available fuel additives are not necessary
for the proper operation of your diesel engine.

As long as the fuel you are purchasing meets Cummins/Bosch/And FCA minimum standards. The manufacturer is not going to come out and say our trucks will not run on sub par fuel currently found in the US market. They do however expect you to purchase properly made fresh fuel meeting minimum standards for cetane and lubricity and completely lacking water.

 

[cojhl2]

If you drive a diesel in the northern states and you don't add something like Power Service you will be by the side of the road talking to yourself.

 

[Newsa]

If you drive a diesel in the northern states and you don't add something like Power Service you will be by the side of the road talking to yourself.

And I won't be saying nice things. Ok. Got some Stanadyne winter 1000 coming tomorrow. I agree. Filling at the end of the day won't get the antigel through the fuel system. Thanks for the comedic and honest suggestions.

 

[AH64ID]

If the fuel stations properly winterize their fuel then there shouldn't be a need for additives. It's when they don't winterize or the weather gets unseasonably cold that people have issues.

I generally does my fuel from October thru December and then stop as the local fuel has always been good.

 

[RWalker]

Get ready for fuel made from Canadian Tar sands, it is hard to treat and doesn't react well to lubricity additives!

 

[Newsa]

Get ready for fuel made from Canadian Tar sands, it is hard to treat and doesn't react well to lubricity additives!

This is true of the crude. If this is true also of the diesel, I'm not looking forward to what this fuel has in store. And if they can't get rid of (somehow neutralize) the caustic nature of this oil, it may invalidate warranties?

 

[josephc1]

Can Power service diesel kleen and fuel supplement be used together at the same time.

 

[Killgore]

Use the Power Service Diesel Kleen in the white bottle during the Winter. It's formulated with a cetane booster and lubricity agent plus the anti-gelling agent, all in one.

- Ed

 

[dammguy]

Fuel Additives:

Has anyone ever tried K100? It is supposed to take care of moisture and lubricisity. I added some to my new 3500 for winter last week, but used it in my old 6.5 Chevy too. I also used an additive called Ethos Fuel Reformulator in the 6.5 and my mileage went from 7 to 10 mpg when towing a 30 ft camper. My 3500 only has 8500 miles on it and gets 11-12 towing a 10,000 lb camper. I haven't tried the Ethos yet, but have some on hand and might try it next year in camping season. I figure the motor is getting broke in and will improve for a little while on its own. I don't pull the camper when there is a possibility of road salt because it is aluminum (Avion). I also don't like to get salt on the truck either. I had it under coated with Fluidfilm but don't like to see my truck white when it is red. It is a 4 door 8 ft bed 4x4 dually so I normally run my gas squeezer to work. SS Diesel supply has better than eBay prices on K100 additive.

Laser guy
2017 3500 4x4
40 mi W of Pittsburgh - GoPenns!

 

[Killgore]

If my quick look at K100 is correct, it contains alcohol and that is a no-no. Maybe someone else will comment on this.

- Ed