fuel filter pic.....unknown miles and 110 gallons of BioDiesel

[Headshot zod]

Well the day I put biodiesel in the tank I knew the countdown had started on the enema of my fuel system. It finally clogged. Ok, so is this slime from my fuel system or is it what a diesel filter looks like everytime you change it. Its my first filter change. So I had no idea what to expect. Its running like a top now.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Thanks for the warning *I* will avoid the homebrew like the plague! That is definitely NOT the look of a normal filter at replacement time...



ON the other hand, an extremely fine fuel filter, such as the Frantz sub-micronic whiz used during transferring the bio into the truck tank, as well as during the refining/blending stages MIGHT have helped avoid much of that mess - anyone wanna guess what that silk-fine in-tank fuel filter (if the '92's had them) might look like as well?

 

[Headshot zod]

well..... this is the build up in the tank from 12 years of driving. The Bio cleans it out the first few tankfuls... ... The guy I buy my Bio from filters down to . 5 microns.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

... And WHY would the bio stuff have any greater "cleaning power" than the regular stuff the rest of us use?



AND, if true, is greater "detergency" something we REALLY want for the rest of the fuel system and engine?

 

[Headshot zod]

its mixed with methanol... ... ... I spilt a little in the bed of truck over the weekend and it dissolved a styrofoam coffee cup... ... . It also dissolves rubber fuel lines.



The guy I got my bio from told me about a Ford driver that tanked up and it totally cleaned out his system and clogged the filter the next day. Afterwhich there were no more problems. It took me a month and a half to clean out my fuel system. Your mileage may vary..... no pun intended

 

[EMD Diesel Power]

As for cleaning power... .



its no different than using old frenchfry oil on rags to get the grease off your hands..... straight diesel does the same thing..... to a certain extent...



however... . frenchfry oil is a *food* of sorts in my eyes for algae and crap. That filter pic shows massive algae and fungi growth..... not to mention massive water contamination... . look at the rust!!!!



No diesel filter should ever look like that... ... makes me wonder what the downstream side looked like..... if it was clean..... thank your stars and find a different biodiesel. haha



interesting topic though! for treatment..... clean out the tank!!!! and then dump in straight diesel with bunch of biocide treatment... along with some lubricity stuff... . and run that combination for 2 tankfuls maybe more!.





Jeff

 

[Headshot zod]

The first 75 gallons were soybean based, the rest and currently in use is sesame seed oil based. If anybody was curious.



All of the reading I have done on the subject have all said the same thing. Its going to clean everything the first time around. But from what you can see there are algae thingees in my tank.



I would love to get this thing checked out. Anybody know where I could send it. Or should I pick up a filter cutter and we can do an alien autopsy here.

 

[Headshot zod]

Anybody know of a good biocide... ... .

 

[MFranz]

BioDiesel

Headshot Zod,

Did you have to do any mods to your engine to run BioDiesel.

Is your milage the same as running on reg. Diesel. Have you considered making your own BioDiesel and how long have you been using Bio. and how many miles have you put on your engine with Bio.

Apologies for so many questions but I be curious.

Thanks,Mike

 

[LightmanE300]

Headshot, don't be scared off by the uninformed folks who have replied on this thread. I've run bio since 2001(all blends up to b100) in three vehicles and the info you have is accurate. I've run bio from WVO and SVO, it doesn't matter - especially if the fuel you are buying is ASTM certified. WVO sourced bio typically has a higher cloud point but has more cetane - SVO bio cetane is typically 49-51, and WVO sourced bio is typically 55-57.



Yes Biodiesel has extremely more solvent and cleaning power than regular diesel or french fry oil, and yes it will clean out all the years of sludgy buildup out of your tank in your older CTD, and typically will funk up your first one or two filters. While biodiesel is solvent enough to keep everything extremely clean, it also has many times more lubricity than regular diesel, preserving the life of your injection equipment and reducing wear. While I agree that's one of the worst looking filters I've seen, I'd be more interested to see the next one. Make sure the bio is from a good source and doesn't have any glycerin or anything settling to the bottom.



Are you pretty impressed with the idle quality etc? I know my CTD really is quieter and smoother on b20. What blends are you planning on running?

 

[y-knot]

This last weeks Sunday paper show casted 6 fuel stations in the area that will start selling Bio-Diesel. It is a 2% mix that they will increase over time. Also they said it is more expensive then the straight diesel, but for the first few months they will eat the extra cost so the Bio Diesel remains competitive. I think it is bad timing introducing this stuff right before the winter months, from the look of the fuel filter in this post, it already looks congealed.

I do not have any experience with Bio Diesel, and I am not condemning it, but I am worried about it effecting the fuel system. I hope all goes well, but I will not be one of the ones to try it out, not yet.

 

[Headshot zod]

WVO sourced bio typically has a higher cloud point but has more cetane - SVO bio cetane is typically 49-51, and WVO sourced bio is typically 55-57. Are you pretty impressed with the idle quality etc? I know my CTD really is quieter and smoother on b20. What blends are you planning on running?

I learned something today..... I didn't know about the cetane difference between the svo and wvo sourced bio... . Cool..... now I can go back to bed... ...



My first tank was B50%. Within 10 minutes of driving it had quieted down. I was pretty shocked. I didn't think it was going to be that noticeable... . but it was.



I've been running B100 since then. Although the 55 gallon drum I picked up I had him mix some antigel in for $20. Its getting cold here (NJ) The cost per gallon for me is about $2. 76 (w/antigel). But if it wasn't cold i'd be paying $2. 40 or so. Its a bit pricey now... but early adopters always get hit with high prices. This is what I have been telling people when I have been showing my truck at shows when they go into sticker shock.



"I'd rather pay an extra . 30 cents at the pump to support American farmers then give it to those overseas who don't really like us. "



And if I still have their ear I say this... .....



"What most people don't understand is that 1/2 of the Saudi's like us and the other 1/2 don't. And its the older Saudi's that like us... . well there going to die at some point and then what are going to do". Its a politically inert statement and I don't come off as a treehugger, and it gives them something to think about. And nobody has been able to disagree with me.



No mods to the truck yet. I've been out of work so I haven't been able to go down south to greasel and pick-up a coolant heated fuel tank.



My record for mpg has been 23mpg. And that was from central Pa to Dayton Ohio. I know with a few bombs I can jump that number up. I guess I have used about 110 gallons of it most of it being B100. With the exception of a partial fill up in PA. , I haven't used any petroleum since the beginning of September.



MFranz... ... I've been thinking about making myself and save alot of cash. But right now I don't have the time. I might be able to get somebody to start carrying B100 in Northern NJ. So keep those fingers crossed.

 

[LightmanE300]

Y-knot - bio is nothing new, and millions of miles have been driven without problems. This is well past the guinea pig stage - FYI all diesel fuel sold in Minnesota will have 2% biodiesel. People don't seem to even notice most gasoline pumps say up to 10% ethanol, I can't imagine why 2% bio would shake any leaves. Apparently they opened 5 stations or so in Cincinatti recently that are serving up biodiesel blends - maybe we're talking about the same thing since I see you are in KY. I guarantee at 2% you will never notice any difference running that fuel. The environment, foreign oil dependence, etc will notice a difference, however at 2% you certainly won't. I've run b15 (15%) in my cummins and haven't noticed any difference. Finally at b20, the idle is smoother and quieter, and the smell is significantly reduced.



Secondly - the stuff on the fuel filter is not biodiesel - it's sludge that was cleaned from his old tank, assuming he got good biodiesel. Seeing that he bought it, it's likely commercially produced ASTM certified bio. The only reason I say so is because homebrew often will have glycerin settle out of the fuel, and it kinda looks brown and gooey like your filter.



I've run b20 down to -5F with no gel problems. B2 would never be an issue.

 

[Headshot zod]

y-not. . B2 is a good start. I wouldn't worry about it. It will definitely start cleaning but it shouldn't dump like mine. I figured I'm out of work now so I think about my fuel system clogging and not have it be an issue. If a station started selling B100 and 100 cars tanked up with drivers not "fully" understand the cleansing effect. 100 cars might clog within a week and might not buy it again because of simple ignorance. And their mechanics might not understand it either and say "well, just don't use it then if it clogs your filter".

 

[LightmanE300]

I honestly don't think b2 will have any cleaning effect. I don't even think you'd have a clogged filter with b100 in a new truck. Note the year of headshot's rig - lots of time for funk to build up in the tank from dirty dino diesel.



In all of my use (4000 gals so far) of biodiesel since 2001, participation on bio internet forums, etc, to be honest this is the FIRST real case of fuel filter plugging I've seen. Even my buddy in tampa who switched his 82 MB 240D straight to b100 had no issues. It's commonly written in biodiesel sites to prepare with extra filters etc because this potentially COULD happen. However, in the biodiesel community this is sort of a running myth because nobody has actually ever seen it happen. The more I think about Headshot's particular situation, I have to conclude that he must have had a very dirty tank (did you ever burn used oil , just curious?), or some less than ASTM quality biodiesel. Could be a combination of the two. In any case, this is most certainly NOT the norm. The only time I've ever seen nasty clogged filters is from people that try to burn SVO (straight veg oil) or WasteVO kits like greasel etc. When I switched my TDI from dino to b100 and ran it for 35k miles exclusively,there was zero gunk in any of my fuel filter changes. That's including the first one after the switch, which had gone 15k on dino before the switch.





HS - did you confirm it was astm certified bio, or tell us more about the source. Homebrewers of various degrees have various degrees of skill or requirements for the final product.

 

[EMD Diesel Power]

ASTM certification makes all the difference on biodiesel.



Judging from the filter pic, i had figured he was running a homebrew of sorts... .



Also... Im wondering what is the fuel mileage with bio vs. #2D. According to your info, there is a high cetane and cloudpoint..... that tells me you should probably get slightly less mileage..... with the biodiesel... . not much but less. Im really interested in the cetane number for the WVO fuel... . 55-57 yikes. Personally thats too high for a good fuel. 1D and 2D fuels have a normal range of 40-45 cetane..... and 48-50 was the highest you should really go, otherwise there would be preignition and lots of black smoke. High cetane just lights off too fast... . especially with compression ignition. If you arent getting those symptoms... . Id be interested in knowing why!



As far as lubricity goes, ASTM biodiesel cant be beat! its has virtually no sulfur... . but it has natural lubricity due to its chemical makeup! pretty cool.



In my previous post, I was more concerned for the algae, fungi growth and junk being flushed out of the tank... ... sometimes stirring things up *wakes up* the stuff, thats why its always benefical to treat with a biocide until things clear out. Didnt care about the lubricity part.



As for the *myth* of filters plugging..... anything goes. I've seen all sorts of wierd stuff from both ends of the spectrum... . in both trucks and locomotives. I've seen locomotives come in with all the filters plugged with algae and debris (like rags and broken pieces of 2x4 hahaha)... . yet the rest of the consist fueled same time, same fuel, same place, on the same run) was fine. It was RARE... . but it did happen! LOL Its always a good idea to carry extras of anything anyway.



I have heard lots of sucess stories on ASTM biodiesel... . so sorry if it seemed like I was knocking it in my last post... (was kinda *tipsy* anyway ) Just get the crap cleared out of the tank and go from there! BTW I am ASE Master Diesel certified... . so go ahead and question everything. LOL makes me think about it! haha Besides... . I learn something new everyday!!!!



Jeff

 

[y-knot]

I think we are talking about the same service stations (why do we continue to call them SERVICE STATIONS, when they do not service anything any more?), I live only 12 miles from Cincinnati, in the very northern part of KY. That article did state that many large fleets like school buses and metro buses have been using the B2 for a long time, with no problems.

Heck, I have probably filled up a couple of times with the stuff and didn't even know it. I will continue to monitor the use of B2 and see how it goes. I just wonder why Flying J, and some of the other giant truck stop don't offer the Bio-Diesel?

 

[LightmanE300]

Jeff, higher cetane means better power and fuel burn, and if anything, higher mpg. Cloud point doesn't affect mpg. Don't get me wrong, I'm NOT saying bio will ever increase your mpg, just that higher cetane fuel in general is helpful. Higher cetane means more complete burn - and less smoke. I'm not sure what would happen if you put 70 cetane fuel in, but within limits, higher cetane helps smoke, power, and mpg.



That is actually not too high of a cetane, average fuel in europe is 50-55 cetane, and their premium is up to 65. Theres some bad A$$ BMW x5 high performance turbodiesel that supposedly requires 63! I'm sure the timing is adjusted slightly, but anything under 60 is no prob for us. All I run is 50 cetane bp diesel supreme, with additives. Since I'm only running 20% bio, the overall cetane isn't affected that much, nor the btu -which keeps mpg about the same.



As far as the filter clogging myth, I'm only referring to filter clogging as the result of switching to biodiesel, not throwing 2x4's in your tank

 

[rbattelle]

I'm very interested in running biodiesel (Y-Knot I did read online about the stations in Cincy offering B2). But I want to be able to go to a fuel station and fill up with it at a commercial pump. I'd be willing to start with B20, and work up from there. What I don't want is to have to buy the stuff from a shifty guy in a dark alley! Where is ASTM standard biodiesel acquired?

 

[rbattelle]

It also dissolves rubber fuel lines.

Then you had to eliminate any rubber from your fuel delivery system? Or does it only attack certain types of rubber?



ON EDIT:

Did some light reading over at www.biodieselnow.com and found this article . Check out chapter 8, which specifically states:





The solvency problems occur most often when customers try to put higher blends or even pure

biodiesel into aged and dirty systems that previously held No. 2 diesel fuel. If you do not clean

out the diesel fuel storage tanks before using biodiesel blends of 30% or higher, there is a strong

risk that excessive fuel filter plugging and fuel injector failure may occur. We recommend

cleaning fuel storage tanks (remove water and accumulated sediments) before using higher blend

levels or B100.

Consumers that did not encounter any problems with B20 assume they can switch to higher

blends without any concern because they think the B20 already cleaned their tanks. B20 doesn’t

really clean the tanks, it’s too diluted. Once again, tanks should be cleaned before switching to

higher blend or B100 fuels.