Fuel Injector Summary

[TCDiesel]

I have found VCO (China) Nozzles on injectors
I will just share this.
Exxxgy fxxks me again. XX told me my late 5.9 had VCO nozzles in it where I clearly paid for SAC MarXXX H-xxxxroad

 

[CVR222NV]

The biggest difference between OEM "Virgin NEW" and BBi hasn't been mentioned and that's the nozzle design used. Best I can tell (BBi) uses a more reliable design than the OEM 'for emissions' design.

Do compare warranties for parts and labor as they can have different time limits.

The BBi Stage 1 injectors require a "tune" to pass emissions. The person who tuned my 5.9 likes the stage 1's as they are easier to tune the smoke out of the exhaust. Stage 0.5's have some results of passed snap emissions tests on stock tunes. It's another grand on top of injector purchase to add a Smarty and a custom tune.

So BBI's have the SAC design and the Stage .5's don't require a tune to pass emissions? I intend to add EFI Live in the future so it sounds like I can tune for emissions in any event.

 

[TCDiesel]

SAC Nozzle is not company dedicated...

Don't believe Statements like " With our background in OE development and manufacturing we bring a unique perspective " the company making statements like these are the gross violators in selling " The company that made this statement I have the parts they so called "Unique"

 

[S.Morris]

New Bosch (Virgrin) is no different in quality than Bosch Recon (Verify its Bosch fingerprinted) Only price, I can play a tune and I can make Injector print outs show what I want.

Bosch has now authorized certain rebuilder to certify to Bosch Standards, This new program DOES not have My blessing at current.
Todd
Are you saying that Bosch remans are as good as virgin Bosch IF you can verify that they were in fact remanned by Bosch??
If so , how can you be SURE..??

 

[S.Morris]

I am approaching mileage to consider new injectors. Sig truck , stock 04 305hp with smjr.
This truck must pass a semi annual commercial emission snap opacity test. For this test I remove the smjr programming as it creates issues with rpm ramp up.

Will BBI's 0.5's pass a commercial snap test ??
Will these with a smjr on tow still allow EGT to stay under control when towing heavy for long periods (climbs) (6spd). (Stock turbo and manifold).
Should turbo be upgraded to at least the 325hp stock version, and a two piece exhaust manifold (thoughts).

Truck as it is in stock form with smjr on tow has always been enough, but sometimes must give 110%.
Not really wanting to open a can of worms of modifications to accommodate a "little more"
Truck at 240K miles/4950hrs

 

[seafish]

...Compared to stock the 143 gives you 8 smaller holes with a broader pattern. Better atomization and a better distribution of fuel in the plume because it isn't 5 holes at a steeper angle and using the deep bowl to spread it out. Just efficacy of the injection event seems to make a difference, then, tuning is easier to to get clean power because the injection pattern is flatter and tends to cover more area consistently...

Cerb, are you directly stating that within your own experiences installing and using the 143* injectors with the wider spray pattern on a piston crown intrinsically designed to work with a 124* spray pattern will have no effect on piston or engine longevity ??

 

[cerberusiam]

Stage .5's will pass the snap test in CA. Without cranking up the fuel you should see no issues with EGT's on normal towing and operation. Naturally if you exceed limits and common sense the injectors won't fix that.

I have over 100k on several engines with the 143 pattern injectors. We are running a low 400 HP tune on it and towing heavy a good share of the time with no observed issues. Wish I could say as much for the 6.7 in the stable.

 

[CVR222NV]

I have over 100k on several engines with the 143 pattern injectors. We are running a low 400 HP tune on it and towing heavy a good share of the time with no observed issues.

I emailed BBI regarding the 143 degree pattern Stage .5 injectors and got no response so I'm wondering if this is even an option?

 

[cerberusiam]

If all else fails order the ones for the 03-04 engines.

 

[CVR222NV]

Ahhh . . . so no problem running the 2003 -2004.5 BBI Stage .5 injectors in a 2006? The differences are highlighted below.

Dodge Ram 2003 – 05.2004 | Stage 0.5

Originally these injectors have a flow rate of 60 l/h @ a pressure of 100bar.
Our MY03 Stage 0.5 injectors use the same nozzle flow as our stage 1 injectors use. (nozzle flow rate of 78 l/h/100bar --> 30% increase compared to stock)
For model years 2003-2004 we utilize a 143° spray angle

They are detuned to lower emissions and exhaust gas temperatures. An increase in fuel economy will be noticed as they have a shorter injection duration, with the same energizing time as the OEM injectors. This makes the Stage 0.5 a perfect towing injector.

To better understand the injection quantity increase, below are the values for the full load injection quantity @1600bar/1700µs:

OEM: ~125mm³
Stage 0.5: ~150mm³
Stage 1: ~165mm³

Dodge Ram 05.2004 – 06.2007 | Stage 0.5

Originally these injectors have a flow rate of 61,8 l/h @ a pressure of 100bar.
Our MY4.5 Stage 0.5 injectors use the same nozzle flow as our stage 1 injectors use. (nozzle flow rate of 76,2 l/h/100bar -->24% increase compared to stock)
For model years 2004-2007 we utilize a 124° spray angle

They are detuned to lower emissions and exhaust gas temperatures. An increase in fuel economy will be noticed as they have a shorter injection duration, with the same energizing time as the OEM injectors. This makes the Stage 0.5 a perfect towing injector.

To better understand the injection quantity increase, below are the values for the full load injection quantity @1600bar/1700µs:

OEM: ~130mm³
Stage 0.5: ~149mm³
Stage 1: ~163mm³

 

[cerberusiam]

Looks like just under 2 l\h\100 bar more in fuel, essentially comparable. I have had no issues running about the same injector rates for over 100k and it seems easier to tune and get results. That might just be my ineptitude at it also but I have gotten good power and mpg from that combo.

 

[LWells]

Cerb - thanks for the serial number info.
Ozy - searched multiple ways but could not find that post you referenced?
TC - your advice is like Mark's, do one thing at a time; save the lash for later. Think I'll measure but hold on the adjust until success w/ the injectors - will cost me some time but probably a good idea.
JD - thanks for the nozzle design info

Appreciate it guys, will let you know how it all goes in a few weeks when i get all the parts and a free weekend.

 

[Martin_BBI]

Hi together,
my attention was brought to that thread, so I thought it is good to provide some answers.

So BBI's have the SAC design and the Stage .5's don't require a tune to pass emissions? I intend to add EFI Live in the future so it sounds like I can tune for emissions in any event.

I am approaching mileage to consider new injectors. Sig truck , stock 04 305hp with smjr.
This truck must pass a semi annual commercial emission snap opacity test. For this test I remove the smjr programming as it creates issues with rpm ramp up.

Will BBI's 0.5's pass a commercial snap test ??
Will these with a smjr on tow still allow EGT to stay under control when towing heavy for long periods (climbs) (6spd). (Stock turbo and manifold).
Should turbo be upgraded to at least the 325hp stock version, and a two piece exhaust manifold (thoughts).

Truck as it is in stock form with smjr on tow has always been enough, but sometimes must give 110%.
Not really wanting to open a can of worms of modifications to accommodate a "little more"
Truck at 240K miles/4950hrs

We have passed emission testing with Stage 0.5s in the State of Washington on stock tuning with MY03 injectors in a 2003 truck and with MY4.5 injectors in a 2006 truck.
We have not done that emission testing with MY03 spray pattern in a MY4.5 truck. My best guess is that they will pass also but we didn´t try it.
Stage 1 injectors passed the test also but required tuning.

To the EGT question. If you use Stage 0.5 injectors and compare them to stock injector you will get lower EGT´s using them under the same conditions. That is not a matter of tuning.

I emailed BBI regarding the 143 degree pattern Stage .5 injectors and got no response so I'm wondering if this is even an option?

I did not receive an email from you, what email address did you send that to?
We do not offer any different 143° injectors than the MY03´s. But you can use all of them with MY4.5 pistons as the wide piston bowl is not reantrant and works with both spray designs.

 

[Martin_BBI]

Let me know if there are any further unanswered questions

 

[Martin_BBI]

Here a comparison of the two different piston bowls with the two nozzle spray angles to get a better idea of why you can use MY03 injectors in MY4.5 trucks

https://www.bigbanginjection.com/spray angle vs piston bowl.pdf

And here the emission test results:

https://www.bigbanginjection.com/Emission test results.pdf

 

[CVR222NV]

I did not receive an email from you, what email address did you send that to?

Hmmm . . . I used the contact section from your website but when I go to my sent folder I do not see an email so not sure what happened.

That said thank you for the response to this thread. It has been most helpful and reassuring and confirms what Cerb has experienced!

Let me know if there are any further unanswered questions

The only lingering question I have is when should I change injectors? I'm at 189,000 miles on the original injectors and am not seeing any signs of failure. However, I want to add EFI Live tuning and the sellers all want to know what upgrades you have (other than an exhaust manifold the motor is stock). One advantage to changing now would be to avoid a retune when I eventually upgrade injectors. Other than injectors I have no plans for any other modifications. Your or anyone else's thoughts?

 

[EricViviano]

https://www.pensacoladiesel.com has very reasonably priced reman injectors, they use new bosch nozzle and control valve in every rebuild. I also send a lot of stuff to Industrial Injection in Salt Lake since they are only 4 hours south of me, and they do quality work.

https://www.glacierdieselpower.com/i-1202-03-07-gdp-mk-2-filter-kit.html run this kit or some version of it, to get that 2 micron filtration. Your stock filter is rated at 7 microns, even Cummins says 7 is not sufficient. But leave the 7 in there first to catch the big stuff and water.

As far as doing the job yourself, yes totally doable. Hardest part is back couple two injectors and valves. Setting the valves is not too bad, time consuming and tedious while your laid out over the top of your motor. A topside creeper is a worthwhile investment. Also you should consider replacing the fuel lines and injector feed tubes while doing the job.

https://www.amazon.com/Traxion-3-100-Foldable-Topside-Creeper/dp/B002Y090BY/

Good luck.

 

[cerberusiam]

Tune it for the stock injectors and add the filtration, you might get quite a few more miles out of it before you need to change them. If you are wanting the absolute most efficient tune then it would require the injectors you intend to run. However, that would require many dyno runs and extensive changes to match your setup, location, driving style, etc. You are not getting that with a custom internet tune, what you get will be what matches most of the setups they provide for. You should easily be able to control the differences between injectors with your right foot when you switch injectors as long as they are close.

 

[seafish]

Martin and Cerb, thanks for chiming in on this.

I have THREE related questions for you ---

WHICH injector spray pattern comes oem in the MY2005 truck ??
And can I use EITHER pattern in the BBi stage 1 injectors??
And which Stage 1 pattern would be BETTER to use??

 

[Martin_BBI]

The only lingering question I have is when should I change injectors? I'm at 189,000 miles on the original injectors and am not seeing any signs of failure. However, I want to add EFI Live tuning and the sellers all want to know what upgrades you have (other than an exhaust manifold the motor is stock). One advantage to changing now would be to avoid a retune when I eventually upgrade injectors. Other than injectors I have no plans for any other modifications. Your or anyone else's thoughts?

If your goal is not to get more power or better efficiency because of better injectors, I would also do it like Cerb said and keep them as long as they do not cause any issues.

Martin and Cerb, thanks for chiming in on this.

I have THREE related questions for you ---

WHICH injector spray pattern comes oem in the MY2005 truck ??
And can I use EITHER pattern in the BBi stage 1 injectors??
And which Stage 1 pattern would be BETTER to use??

2005 trucks have the later pattern, so the 124° spray angle. VCO nozzle with 5 holes.
You can use both injector types (MY03 and MY4.5) with the wider non-reantrant piston bowl.
Honestly with Stage 1´s I do not think that you will see much benefits if you use MY03 injectors instead of MY4.5´s.
The only benefit I would consider is idle haze when your engine is cold as with the 124° spray angle you have less time for burning the fuel until it "hits" the piston surface giving it the chance to condensate and vaporize instead of burning.