Fuel injector time ??? issues on My 2006 5.9 this time.

[TurbineDoc]

I think I know the answer, I'm looking for 2nd opinion, with $$$ of injectors I don't want to guess wrong.

My last trip to my camp I was driving my 06 3500 4x4 dually, & whenever putting load on truck i.e. hill climb, or running above 71 mph, I would get an audible chime alert ans grid hearer on flash on the dash, I would clear after dropping below 70, and stayed cleared unless running above 71 mph after about 2 min there the grid heater/chime would come back on.

I have searched several forums, the consesus that I can glean is that this is some sort of indicator of high return rate/poor injector flow.

My truck has 230K on odometer I do not know if this is the original set, if you will recall earlier, this past Feb. I posted about algae in my tank (that issue is sorted out); but as result of that crud I had to replace FCA to restore correct fuel pressure regualtion that was allowing 22Kpsi at idle, now I'm wondering if "it is just time" for the injectors, or should I also be looking for something else?

One of the folks at DDP motor sports suggested I might be having a grid heater issue, I checked that out all looked good there, should I be looking at a rail fuel pressure relief valve ???

If I do decide on injectors what else in the fuel system should I be looking to replace at same time to keep me from having to do this again anytime soon?

Do I need to park the truck for now or can I keep driving it at the 70 mph "high limit" where alarm does not seem to come on?

Also could someone point me to a good thread to review what injectors to use, more specifically which to avoid?

Thank You in advance

Tim

 

[Ozymandias]

Are you still running stock filtration?

There should also be a stored code now from the event. Probably needs a high end scanner to see it.

 

[TurbineDoc]

Are you still running stock filtration?

No I went with Air dog after the algae issue in Feb, dropped the tank cleaned out rinsed with water & denatured alcohol, let dry, and reinstalled tank, also have been treating with Bio Kleen

 

[Ozymandias]

Means that until recently you run on a below par filter.
230k isn't to bad for 06 factory injectors without added filtration.

Before you spend money you should read the codes at the dealer.

 

[TurbineDoc]

No codes, I'm able to read codes with my Insight 2 monitor.

 

[Ozymandias]

That's new to me that EDGE is a full access scanner beyond the generic codes. So all good here.

 

[cerberusiam]

It is likely high return flows on the injectors. That is a typical mileage even with better filtration and treatment. A set of BBI .5 remans is pretty cost effective, or a set of .5 new BBI's if you have the coin.

 

[sag2]

Before you start spending money on a set of injectors, retorque the connector tubes. If your handy it is free and you have nothing to loose.

 

[sag2]

From the TSB.

SUBJECT:Flash: Diagnostic Enhancements For Fuel SystemOVERVIEW:This bulletin provides Engine Control Module (ECM) software enhancements to improverobustness to fuel system issue detection and two new Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC's).This bulletin involves selectively erasing and reprogramming the Engine Control Module(ECM) with new software.Diagnostic procedures for these new DTC's are included in this Service Bulletin on the last2 pages which may be printed.The two new injector Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC's) for excessive injector return floware:•P1222 - LEAK DETECTION DURING MOTORING•P1223 - LEAK DETECTION BASED ON QUANTITY BALANCE**When the fault(s) occur, a solidWait to Startlamp will illuminate in the cluster along withchiming 10 times. When the fault goes inactive, it will clear the wait to start lamp with nochimes**.NUMBER:18-006-12GROUP:Vehicle PerformanceDATE:February 04, 2012

MODELS:2004.5DRRam Truck (2500/3500 Pick Up)2005 - 2007DHRam Truck (2500 Pick Up)2006 - 2007D1Ram Truck (3500 Pick Up)NOTE: This bulletin applies to vehicles equipped with a 5.9L Cummins Diesel Engine(sale codes ETC or ETH)

DIAGNOSTIC PROCEDURE P1222 - LEAK DETECTION DURING MOTORINGNOTE: For a complete wiring diagram, refer to the Wiring Information.When engine is motoring (i.e. Engine is running, but requires no fuel injection) the onlyrequired fuel delivery to the rail is due to natural leakage in the system. The naturalleakage depends directly on the rail pressure. A definite amount of fuel is required toovercome the natural leakage, for different fuel pressures. The Engine Control Module(ECM) sets Leakage Detected, when the fuel flow exceeds an expected value. When aleak is detected in the system, a counter is initiated. When the counter reaches apredetermined value a fault is set and engine derate is enabled. When the leak is notdetected the counter counts down, and once the counter becomes zero the engine is setback to normal running conditions.**A solidWait to Startlamp will illuminate in the cluster along with chiming 10 times.When the fault goes inactive, it will clear the wait to start lamp with no chimes**.•When Monitored:Engine is motoring and at operating temperature with no fuelsystem and engine speed related DTC's.•Set Condition:Counter reaches a calibrated value.Possible CausesEXCESSIVE INJECTOR RETURNNOTE: Always perform the Pre-Diagnostic Troubleshooting procedure beforeproceeding.OTHER DTC's PRESENT1. Turn the ignition on.2. With the scan tool, select View DTC's. Are there any other fuel system related DTC'spresent along with this DTC?a. Yes >>> Perform the diagnostics for the other fuel system DTC's before proceeding.b. No >>>> Perform the INJECTOR RETURN FLOW TEST procedure.18-006-12-6-

DIAGNOSTIC PROCEDURE P1223 - LEAK DETECTION BASED ON QUANTITYBALANCENOTE: For a complete wiring diagram, refer to the Wiring Information.There is a required amount of fuel required by the fuel system to keep the system stable.The amount of fuel required depends on fuel pressure, injection quantity, engine speed,and coolant temperature. The Engine Control Module (ECM) sets Leakage Detected, whenthe fuel flow exceeds an expected value. When a leak is detected in the system, a counteris initiated. When the counter reaches a predetermined value a fault is set and enginederate is enabled. When the leak is not detected the counter counts down, and once thecounter becomes zero the engine is set back to normal running conditions.**A solidWait to Startlamp will illuminate in the cluster along with chiming 10 times.When the fault goes inactive, it will clear the wait to start lamp with no chimes**.•When Monitored:Engine is running above low idle speed and at operatingtemperature with no fuel system and engine speed related DTC's.•Set Condition:Counter reaches a calibrated value.Always perform the Pre-Diagnostic Troubleshooting procedure before proceeding.Possible CausesEXCESSIVE INJECTOR RETURNNOTE: Always perform the Pre-Diagnostic Troubleshooting procedure beforeproceeding.OTHER DTC's PRESENT1. Turn the ignition on.2. With the scan tool, select View DTC's. Are there any other fuel system related DTC'spresent along with this DTC?a. Yes >>> Perform the diagnostics for the other fuel system DTC's before proceeding.b. No >>>> Perform the INJECTOR RETURN FLOW TEST procedure.

 

[promisedland]

I have the bbi .05s, they are good injections but tend to haze.
Custom tuning?

 

[PLohr]

Retorquing the connector tubes is standard operating procedure but it made no difference in my case.

Two things that I would be performing diagnostics on: the injectors and the high pressure pump.

Do you know how quickly a 5.9 common rail engine starts with a healthy pump and injectors? If you do, does the engine require additional cranking time to start? In my limited experience, that's more likely to be a pump issue. My engine required moderately more cranking than normal, my injectors were bypassing a lot of fuel but were not out of spec; replacing them made no difference in the cranking time. So the pump is more likely to be the issue behind long cranking times. Especially on a hot restart.

What is the cranking fuel pressure like? A good scanner (I use an older Snap-on model) will display this. I think the minimum is specified in the Chrysler manual (and maybe in the Cummins manual).

You may have injector balance rates that can be viewed with a scanner. Those numbers can tell of worn injectors. My truck is a 2003 and does not offer injector balance rates.

There is at least one and possibly two fuel flow return tests for the injectors. Of special note, you'll need a scanner to put the fuel system in 'fuel pressure override' mode for at least one of the tests. I think this / these procedure(s) are in both the Cummins and Chrysler manual.

There is a fuel flow return test for the pump. Not sure if the scanner is needed for this one.

How much time are these diagnostics worth? The fuel flow return tests could be much valuable if the service manual gave more information. For one thing, neither the Cummins nor the Chrysler service manual state the fuel return flow rate for a new pump or new injectors. Minimum cranking pressure is specified for the pump but the same is not mentioned for a new pump. Knowing these would allow us to decide how much life the pump and injectors have left. As an example of how these 'new' specifications could help: my pump passed the fuel flow return test yet hot restart cranking times are long. Apparently it is well worn but I didn't have enough information to judge this.

Others have probably already pointed out that:
1. Your pump and injectors have already seen some amount of contamination.
2. They are near or beyond the typical life in mileage.

If you end up replacing the injectors, Martin at BBI said it is better to use the Cummins procedure for aligning the connector tubes rather than the Chrysler procedure which omits it. The Cummins procedure made good sense when I read it.

Have a great day, my friend.