Fuel Shut Off Problem!

[TStetson]

I think my fuel shut off is sticking. The last couple of days my truck has been hard to start. It is not cranking any harder it just takes alot more cranks to start. And today for lunch i turned the truck off to order and when i went to start it it was hard to start. Ok first question how much dose the cylinoyd (sp?) cost? Second how hard is it to change. I spoke with the guy i bought the truck off of and he said he had replaced it 2 or 3 times. Any help would be greatly apretiated.



Tony Stetson

 

[Joe G.]

Tony,



It sounds like the solenoid is NOT the problem. Have someone twist the key and observe the solenoid. If it lifts that's not the problem. I suspect that you probably have bad fuel hoses and/or a bad overflow valve. Both of these conditions will cause what you are seeing. The fuel hoses are the most likely culprit. These hoses may not be wet since they may leak from the ends because the hose has deterioated. Changing them is kind of a PITA. In order to get room to work remove the starter and remove the two nuts that fasten the master cylinder to the booster and lean it toward the fender. Make sure you use diesel rated fuel hose or you will have to do this again. The spring in the overflow valve may weaken or break. This valve is in the banjo fitting on the side of the injection pump on the engine side on even with the forward delivery valve. Before removing it to check the spring cram a rag in the space below the valve to catch the sealing washers. The spring should measure a 1/2" or just a tiny bit more. If it does not you can stretch it. That will weaken the spring so it's just a temporary repair until you can get a replacement. I made a shim from a small washer to get mine to spec quite a few miles ago. No problems since with fuel pressure or starting. If you replace the valve Piers Harry at http://www.piersdiesel.com/ has a good price on them.

 

[TStetson]

If it is my fuel lines. How long will it take me to replace them? Yes i am a little guy cuz i know u have to squeze into some small spots. And do u have any idea of how much line and how big i need? Still new to the diesel scene, but i am learning. Where exactly is the fuel shut off?

 

[Joe G.]

It's been a while since I did it. I think the hose is 3/8" ID and you will need a couple of feet of it. If the clamps are the originals you will need four new ones. Just cut the old ones off. It will take you a couple of hours. If you have a 4X4 you will need something to stand on. This job can make you loose your temper the first time you do it!! Make sure you get hose for diesel. Before you start it's a GOOD idea to trim sharp ends off any tie wraps you might contact. That will save some blood and temper.

 

[HoleshotHolset]

Note on tie wraps: If you use those little tiny cutters designed for doing electronics repair you can get right up close and cut it off flush..... or I use a die grinder and grind 'em off smooth.

All this work just to keep blood off the engine... .



Matt

 

[swamp rat]

The supply line is 3/8 and the return line is 5/16.

 

[TStetson]

What was dodge thinking. The fuel line goes from steel line to steel braided to steel then to rubber hose. Why not just use the steel braided line. Got a good look at whats going on. Could a clogged fuel filter do the same thing? Woke up this morning same thing it really gets anoying. I am going to work on it saturday when i get home from work. looked at the power steering leaking nothing i could see. I am starting to get flustrated cuz all this started when i needed to replace the rotors. what gives.



Thanks for the help so far

 

[Howard Durand]

I would bet the hoses are your problem. Especially the return hose.

Joe says it all when he says "remove the starter". That is the only way to go. It lets you see and reach any of the components in that area.

If I hadn't put in a filter relocation system, I would remove the starter just to replace the filter.

If you can, try to save the hose clamps. They are good quality and are made so that they don't cut into the rubber hoses.

 

[MxerChris]

since we are on the topic of fuel shut down solenoids, I know mine is going bad its been giving problems on and off for a couple months now its just about every time I crank it, sometimes I end up turning the key on and popping the hood and helping the solenoid pick up a little and holds and I can crank it, I called the dealer they told me it cost $320. 00 does that sound right sounds kind of high to me, can get one from someone else cheaper?

 

[1tuffram]

racingfan,



Make sure it's not the relay giving you an intermit problem first. If it's the solenoid go to Cummins or a place which works on Bosch pumps. This will be the cheapest route over Dodge. Can't remember the price from Cummins, I think I've heard on previous posts it's around $120. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Joe G.]

racingfan,



I posted this on another thread.



There is a large three wire connector above the pump behind the air horn. It should be on top of the wireing harness so it's easy to get to. The wires are black, red, and white. Disconnect this connector and test the side of the connector that goes to the fuel solenoid. Place a ground on the black wire and 12 volts on the white wire with wire that is at least 10 gauge. If the solenoid lifts it is ok and your problem is somewhere else. Again, if your truck is like my '95 there is a blue wire on the positive battery post. This wire may have corroded or burnt in two. If this wire is ok then look at the larger of the two relays on the file wall on the engine side of the master cylinder.



These solenoids are pretty good. Usually the problem is not the solenoid but something haywire in the circuitry.

 

[TurboMike]

I just replace my silenoid after driving without one for 4 months. I got it from Cummins for $160. They said somthing about having a new one that was $100 more, but I got the last "cheap" one that they had in stock.

 

[HerbW]

Piers has them on sale now!

Hi Gang,

Piers has the overflow valves on sale today on his site for $45. 00. Look at his specials to see. I may need one also as my truck is hard to start after a few days of sitting. This really sounds like a fuel line leak to me. (I hope so!) I'm having problems finding diesel rated hose locally. Does any site sell it or the Dodge dealer will gouge me for theirs? Herb

 

[HerbW]

American Flag avatar?

Where are you guys getting the American Flag avatar by your name? I want it also! Thanks, Herb

 

[tron1959]

The solenoid lifts when the engine cranks by supplying more voltage to the solenoid. Turning the key on will not lift the solenoid. Crank the engine first then check the solenoid to see if it is holding. My prevous '94 had this problem but it was not the solenoid. I would have to turn the key on and pop the hood and raise the solenoid. It would hold in the on position but would not lift when cranking. I cleaned all the contacts in this circuit under the hood and traced it to the fuse box near the battery. There is a small relay in there. I pried it open and cleaned the contacts and all of the plugs between here and the solenoid and haven't had any trouble since.

 

[Joe G.]

There are two coils in the solenoid. Pull on and hold. Both of these circuits are shown on the wiring diagram in the service manual. The pull on is activated when the starter is engaged. The hold is on when the key is in the on position. The voltage is always 12 volts for either coil. There is no source for higher voltage available for "supplying more voltage" to anything. As far as I know there is nothing on the truck that requires more than 12 volts. The pull on coil draws more current to do it's job than the hold coil which draws only enough current to hold the solenoid on. The white wire in the heavy three wire connector is for the pull on coil. I have a switch to interrupt this circuit so I can "prelube" my engine by cranking it without fuel so it won't start when I change oil. It also serves as one of my two "theft delay" switches. A relay is used for the pull on circuit since it draws too much current for the ignition switch to handle.

 

[Joe G.]

Herb,



There is a thread in "Other" about the flag avatar and how to get it.

 

[JCQ]

Fuel Shutoff / Hard Starting

I have delt with both of those problems, the fuel return hose will cause you to have a long cranking period to start then once your engine has started and you shut it off restarts are usually ok. I changed out the hose no more hard start, and it only took two weeks for all the cuts to heal on the back of my hands.



The fuel shut off solenoid problem I had was sticking on so when you turned off the key it continued to idle for a minute or so, nice feature for cool down. We took it all apart and cleaned the plunger and have not had that particular problem anymore.



Latest trouble I thought was the solenoid again and was also going under the hood and manually pushing the solenoid in place to start, as I look into it I am very suspect of the ignition switch. Seems if I treat it like a old Chevy and wiggle it a bunch the engine will fire every time. Guess its back to the shop for the 3rd ignition switch.

 

[MxerChris]

so I could have a relay problem ? mine may crank the first time or the 5th time, if it does not crank I can always lift the plunger manually and it always holds then cranks ok. so maybe there is a problem with a relay or the solenoid needs cleaning? plus tell me so, I dont want to have to fork out another $260. 00 for a solenoid. seems I'm always dropping $'s on nit pickey things. Got my Big Honking Air Filter installed yesterday!

 

[TStetson]

may seen dumb but where is the solenoid located at? i have look but i really am not shur where it is.