Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Fundamental turbo questions - Spool, Lag, Smoke

[KLockliear]

In Aug of '03 I dyno'd 460/1050 on a mustang by a reputable company. However I have to believe that something was misconfigured as these numbers seem too high for my setup. Hopefully the results were at least in the ballpark, so I would like to shoot for the 500rwhp club. This adds to my dilemma as the turbos seem to be rated up to 450hp in the "smaller" group and over 550hp in the "larger" size group. I am concerned about pushing the HX40 arena too hard, but not having enough fuel (hp) for the B* level. I expect that this is one area where twins fit into quite nicely, however once again I am not ready for that step yet. Working in a Info. Tech. career leaves me not too concerned about "vapor products" as there is always something better "coming out". This is not a slam, just in today's fast paced and very competitive world, products are being unveiled with exponential regularity.

Bill

Bill, while we don't normally suggest our Jammer for applications over 500rwhp, my truck is at 526rwhp now (and has been over 500rwhp for a while), and it's running fine. Granted, some of this depends on driving habits, but they can live at these power levels.



If you're not looking to upgrade for a little bit yet, you might want to wait for what's just around the corner - our 400-700rwhp dual ceramic ball bearing turbo. Flows like an H2e and spools like a Jammer (better than a 40). Several turbine housings available depending on the power level of the truck, so you can grow with it if you choose.



Instead of twins, you might also consider a largish single and a cam. A cam is the one thing you can do that is all pro's with the only con being the cost - and even then, a single and a cam is cheaper than most twins. The cam will reduce lag (bring the power in earlier as well), reduce smoke, reduce EGT and increase mileage.

 

[R-N-R]

Hi Keith,

My urgency is only due to my having already procrastinated for so long. Asuredly changing a cam cannot be trivial, but does it require a complete top end motor tear down, or is it a reasonably straight forward task. Quite frankly, the only time I recall reading about a cam install is when the motor is undergoing significant machine work and somebody is striving for every last HP they can get, while they are at it so to speak. I have to admit I have been wondering about a "system" approach using a single turbo (twins certainly qualify as a system as well) verses a component approach. Using a cam, water/meth, turbo, etc... . to acheive the goal. The main concern with this is that I usually wind up spending a lot more at the end of the day than I otherwise would have. I also have alot more (of whatever) than I originally planned..... as I sit here and recall that initially all I wanted was a little more towing oomp...

 

[KLockliear]

It's not THAT bad. Takes two guys in our shop about 4 hrs or so. The head doesn't come off... just the valve cover, rockers, pushtubes, lifters, front cover, bumper, rad/intercooler, etc. Also remember that a cam won't give any HP in a diesel, unless you are massively overfueled for the air you already have. HP comes from fuel, and the cam doesn't regulate that (unlike a gasser).



All a cam can change is how the truck builds boost (hence, how quickly the computer/pump will deliver fuel), EGT, smoke and mileage.

 

[SRadke]

Also guys let's not confuse backpressure with drive pressure. Drive pressure is pre turbo, the pressure that drive the turbo. Back pressure is behind the turbo, caused by things like the stock cattle tank muffler.



-Scott

 

[KLockliear]

I think you meant:

Also guys let's not confuse backpressure with drive pressure. Drive pressure is pre turbo, the pressure that drive the turbo. Back pressure is behind the turbo, caused by things like the stock cattle tank muffler.



-Scott

 

[R-N-R]

Thanks for the clarification Scott! Very interesting and informative post Keith. While not typicall adding HP, the cam seems like it could open up possibilites for turbo configuration. Why do you think this is not more wide practiced (perhaps it is and I am not aware of it),because it does not carry HP improvement #s, Cost (typically), installation effort?



This thread has seriously broadened my understanding of how the turbo interacts with the diesel motor!

 

[Beast2B]

The cost and the fact that almost all of the other enhancements are bolt-on items. These Cummins never wear out, so not too many people want to dig into the long block (except those looking for that extra breathing because they already have the most bolt-on goodies and they still haven't gotten any trophies! :-laf )

 

[SRadke]

I think you meant:

Oops! You're right Kieth, that was my typo. I edited my original post



-Scott

 

[Mad Bomber]

The cost and the fact that almost all of the other enhancements are bolt-on items. These Cummins never wear out, so not too many people want to dig into the long block (except those looking for that extra breathing because they already have the most bolt-on goodies and they still haven't gotten any trophies! :-laf )

:-laf :-laf :-laf :-laf :-laf :-laf

 

[Evan A. Beck]

I got one for the bd power super b turbo it was designed by bd's engineers it has a small impeller but the fins on the impeller have been extended so you get small turbo spool with large turbo volume this will support 450hp. This turbo is also offered in a twin setup from bd and you can later buy another and the piping to have a twin setup. Its a great setup for everyday use not everybody wants to spend 4500 on a set of twins

The BD S300 does not support 450 HP! We actually lost power by using it on a truck that had an HX40. Went from 430 HP to 399. The S300 is great for 350-360 HP. Reliable too.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Great thread. Another way to think of the camshaft is it makes your engine breathe like it has more displacement. While it doesn't give you more HP like Keith says, it'll give you the room to add more fuel, and the ability to spool bigger chargers, or make the big one you have already spool faster.



Everything I've read by the few who have installed DD or PDR camshafts are all rave reviews.



Vaughn