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Competition Gale Banks Engineering DMax Type D debuts 8.64 SMOKE FREE!!!!

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I take my hat off to Banks. In the go fast game, brand loyalty isn't what gets you into the record books.



As for Banks having all the resources and money, well, he earned all that the old fashioned way. Can't blame the guy for doing well for himself.



I'd love to see a cummins in that truck, but I think it's cool enough just seeing that technology applied to the diesel world.
 
How much nitrous does this thing burn in a pass?

Is it running 100% synthetic diesel fuel - or gas to liquid (GTL) fuel? (like the Audi R10 TDI... )

Does it have particulate filters or catalysts?

Does it run anything else exotic or not commonly known? (I have a feeling that this info will leak out over time anyhow... )



Beers,



Matt



I hear what you are saying, heck I'd like to know that about others too but us little folks will never know. There was a rumor running around last year that stuck's truck burned 10 lbs of N2O in one pass, if so that is one sad motor on #2 only.



I've always wanted to try some of that cool diesel that the big boys run too!



Jim
 
thats awesome!!!. . and outstanding engineering job for Banks!. . this is the future. . I deal with the emissions stuff pretty often with my job and . . the future is smoke free. . it kinda sucks . . but thats the reality. . oh well if we can get the cummins to run #s like that and be smoke free Im all for it. . congrats. .

Later

Deo
 
I take my hat off to Banks. In the go fast game, brand loyalty isn't what gets you into the record books.



As for Banks having all the resources and money, well, he earned all that the old fashioned way. Can't blame the guy for doing well for himself.



I'd love to see a cummins in that truck, but I think it's cool enough just seeing that technology applied to the diesel world.



This is true, Gale did make his money the old fashion way and has a nice marketing practices. There are a lot of (mis) informed folks out there as to what's the best for your dollar. It's a nice toy if that's all you wanna do is have a programmer.



We'd all do the same if we had the same luck/skill with a product (he has more then just diesel).



Now what really pisses me off is folks like comp, comes in here spouting off like the little guy didn't ever do a think for diesel motor sports. Way to go there Comp. alienate a few more folks every day.
 
thats awesome!!!. . and outstanding engineering job for Banks!. . this is the future. . I deal with the emissions stuff pretty often with my job and . . the future is smoke free. . it kinda sucks . . but thats the reality. . oh well if we can get the cummins to run #s like that and be smoke free Im all for it. . congrats. .

Later

Deo





I hope not, cuz them tail gating hippy prius drivers need a reminder every now and again to back the %$#! off :)
 
At the rumored 2600 pound race weight of that truck, what would the hp to the ground calculate to be? That's the real question. I'm sure there will be more to come from this truck, and I applaud Banks for stepping into the race scene big time. . The sound is very impressive as well. .
 
At the rumored 2600 pound race weight of that truck, what would the hp to the ground calculate to be? That's the real question. I'm sure there will be more to come from this truck, and I applaud Banks for stepping into the race scene big time. . The sound is very impressive as well. .



about 800-850 to move 2600#'s at 8. 6's



to get into the 7's they need 1100hp.
 
your off by more then 200 lbs

and the mph is off as the truck is out of gear at 900 feet , the mph will be in the 170 range

This essential information is needed to "guess" at hp ya know.

And so the truck is what? 2400# or 2800#?

EDIT:
And your math didn't tell you, that you'd be off by 900 feet with too short of a gear?
 
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Greg, sorry about that. . I just saw it on another forum. . I also saw your eighth mile time, and that time/mph seems even more impressive than the quarter. .
 
Hey Guys,

It has been a while since I posted here, but I would like to provide some details on the Sidewinder Type-D for those of you that are interested. Just a brief disclaimer, although I have a lot of endurance and left-turn racing experience, I am not heavily experienced at drag racing. That means that I occasionally need to get information from those in our race shop that are very talented drag racers.



The truck is powered by a 6. 6L Duramax LBZ producing over 1000 HP at the flywheel. The engine is actually one of our road-race builds that has been recalibrated for drag racing. We expect even better performance when we are able to do a drag race specific build.



To answer some of the previously asked questions:

The truck is running on #2 diesel and nitrous, although it is not as much nitrous as some are speculating. There are no other additives. One of our prime objectives has been to have no smoke. This is a reflection of proper tuning, not just the use of nitrous. The nitrous is primarily used because this truck is not intercooled. The road race truck makes about 780 flywheel horsepower with air-to-air intercooling and it produces no smoke as well. There are no exhaust aftertreatments on either truck. The fuel is not synthetic, it is #2 ULSD purchased at a truck fueling station (specifically the CardLock station around the corner from our shop).



The truck is now being prepped to run at the AC-Delco Nationals in Las Vegas this weekend. There is still a lot left in the truck.



I think it is fair to say that the success of this truck is due to proper engineering and good old-fashioned sweat and long hours by a dedicated bunch of guys.



Peter Treydte

Banks Power
 
Kudos on the #s and the smoke (or lack there of), but if your trying to prove something why the S-10?:confused: that motor isn't available in it. Always good to see a diesel running hard AND clean! Just a fan of REAL trucks. :cool: Mine's not a record breaker by any means, but she works all week and tows every weekend. :)
 
lot's of money and nitrous = smoke free diesel ...

no new news there





but ...

8's in anything is sweet and a diesel is even sweeter ...
 
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From Gale Banks:

Gale asked me to post this on his behalf:



"Gentlemen, let's clear the air.



First I want to deal with those that claim that Banks' racing success is because of money. You've got it backwards. Our money success is because of racing (and winning) for the last 50 years. You can give a fool all the money in the world and he'll never win a race. I'm sorry, money is no substitute for knowledge and know how gained over time. If you've got that, then the money will help a ton. Without that, as the Bard said," a fool and his money are soon parted. " So enough with your sour grapes.



As to money, I started in 1958 in my dad's garage, he was an LA cop and a hell of a wrench. He made $395 a month of which I got none. I'm damn proud because I started with nothing and I know what it is to race building engines using other guys junk.



This is my 50th year building racing engines. I've screwed with every type of fuel from nitro methane to hydrogen. In 1974 while working on a future engines study, funded by the Ford Foundation, I became interested in diesel. By 1980 I found myself teaching graduate level, turbo diesel engine design, at General Motors Institute. At the same time I was running twin turbo marine versions of the then upcoming GM 6. 2L diesel in my engine dyno cell. Those prototype 6. 2's didn't go along with the joke and found various ways of putting their parts on the walls and floor of my dyno room. So I never did a marine version of that engine.



By late '81 we came out with our Sidewinder turbo for the 6. 2 pickups, being careful to honor the capabilities of the 6. 2. And, that started the light truck diesel power aftermarket. Every guy who came along with diesel products since then paints a target on my back and does his best to hit it. Some of them do it behind screen names on forums such as this one…that's BS. I deeply respect my competition with the exception of those individuals.



Enough about my career, I’m not writing this to bore you. This is about giving you the facts behind our D-Max powered drag truck. That truck is a follow on to the Cummins powered Sidewinder Dakota we ran at Bonneville in 2002 and the Donahoe/Banks F-250 Power Stroke Baja racer we are currently running against gas powered competition. We are currently second in points and have won a few races as well.



My S-10 Pro Stock truck is one that never saw the light of day as NHRA shut down Pro Stock Truck racing just after it was built. I bought it from the Panellas and it sat for years in my shop getting dusty. I've been wanting to put a D-Max in this thing but we've been working on a road race GMC pickup the last few years. The engine in the road race truck kills everything in the drive train south the clutch and we've spent the last two years building a durable drive train that will live 30 hours. It has not been easy, our longest race is a 25 hour enduro, and we're getting close.



Even though I'm in business, my budget is limited and since building my Bonneville Firebirds in the '80's I have had no factory money at all. The Cummins guys gave me used dyno test engines in 2001 and a lot of volunteer engineering help learning and running the then prototype CR 5. 9 engine. I paid it back by sharing my intake and exhaust port modifications with them and by bringing Cummins a world record for pickups. Those years were a dark time at Cummins, the stock was down in the $26 range, but when we toured the Banks Sidewinder Dakota thru the Cummins facilities in Columbus there were smiles all around.



As regards GM, I get no money from GM on my D-Max projects but they did give me a deal on my LLY support truck. So as to those of you who claim that we do our thing with factory money, please tell me who to call to get reimbursed.



Also, for the last 5 years we have been marketing partners with Bosch and we help each other in our mutual effort to popularize Diesel in the United States. I figure that if we can help the OEM's sell new diesel vehicles then all of us in the aftermarket will have more engines to victimize and a greater market for all.



At the end of the day, I'm a gearhead and hot rodding is my hobby. I do the business part of my day so I can earn enough to experiment in the shop. I love the shop, the engine room, the flow benches, the dyno rooms and the race track. I'm surrounded by a group of employee/friends who are living my dreams and I'm living theirs. We do the things we do together and they make me look like way more than I actually am. Some have been with me 30 years, the ones with more seniority have retired.



These are good guys and when you do not understand what we are doing some of you attack. Frankly, I don't get it, but when you attack my company in the future, do it in my name. These guys don't need their success diminished by the Banks haters.



As to the fellow, Greg Hogue, who was to be our driver on the drag race S-10. When he recently spent a few days with our team of volunteers great conflict resulted. So his driving this project is a non starter. Some of you have commented that he has been hard on Banks competitors in many of his posts. Thank you for pointing that out, it is not my style and I hope it's over. He is not going to run my truck and I trust he will stop running his mouth in such a harmful manner.



Greg Hogue is the main reason that we got the S-10 running, he bugged us all and it worked. I have him to thank for that and wish the chemistry had been better with my guys, but it was not to be. Please understand that he is not an employee of Banks and never has been. He is not our spokesman and posts his own stuff.



As I write this the guys and our racer are in the tech line at the Las Vegas NHRA meet. I've been successful in getting NHRA to accept turbo diesels running nitrous. I asked this such that NHRA would allow serious diesel competition at their meets. The deal with nitrous is smoke prevention. There are NHRA tracks running across the country every weekend. We need their acceptance to grow diesel drag racing beyond the cult status it currently seems to be stuck in.



Running smoke free is the only way in to NHRA meets. There are a lot of bandits out there who think smoke is macho, I'm not one of them. Smoke is the result of incomplete combustion. I prefer to burn the fuel in the engine. Smoke is power you can't read on the dyno or feel in the seat of your pants, period. And the EPA is watching the street smoke boys. Thanks to that, as a board member of SEMA I with others will be dealing with EPA at the upcoming SEMA show trying to protect the very guys who build and sell such products. Products who's smoke production will blot out the Sun.



Smoke is defended in some of the posts with a "stick it where the sun don’t shine if you don't like it" attitude. As to those guys, I guess that would be where ever they happen to be.



I think diesel can "Kick Gas" and the way to prove that is to race the gas burners where they are. We've done it at Bonneville and Baja, We're faster at Willow Springs and Thunder Hill and our new gearbox is looking tough. And, with what we've got going in NHRA, you can run classes as quick as 6. 50 seconds west of the Rockies and in 3 classes east of the Rockies. Our effort at Las Vegas marks the beginning of actual, non exhibition, serious NHRA diesel competition. That's where you will find us. We will be happy to see those of you that drag race, step up and compete, let's show the world what we've got.



As to the parts and engines we are developing; for Cummins we have just finished our high pressure testing on our Big Hoss intake manifold. It allows porting, mounts all stock components, has a 4" inlet, fits under the hood and is streetable and available. We are working on a stand alone racing ECU for common rail and have run a prototype successfully. Internal engine parts will follow.



For Duramax; Our Big Hoss manifold set is available, our 1800 lb-ft Banks Billet Allison torque converter and billet flex plate will be introduced at SEMA and available soon, many internal engine parts will follow. Also we currently have approximately 40 Duramax engines in stock for immediate shipment. These are complete "engines as shipped to the assembly line. " Our racing ECU will be available soon as well as a proper wire loom.



I look forward to seeing you at the races or welcome you to visit us in Azusa,



Gale Banks

Visit us on the web: www.bankspower.com"
 
Yes, I am a cummins fan. :) But the accoplishment is awesome. I remember a few years we were overjoyed at 14s in the 1/4 mile. This is just another step.

Keep up the good work also the research and development. The ultimate goal is also keeping the EPA off our collective butts. #@$%! If you can make power and do it cleanly, great. I personnal don't need a coal freight train.

Yes, it takes money to go fast, try going 4 seconds (top fuel) in the 1/4 mile, it aint cheap.

The faster you go, the more money, time and energy it takes.



And for you nay sayers, :-{} go build a cummins with aluminum heads, CR injectors, single/multiple turbos, and what ever it takes to go 7's in the quarter. Then you have bragging rights. ;), But, you better have a boat load of money to do the research and development (also the brains and imagination). Nothing in life is for free. It is just a lot of hard work...



Now I will get off my soap box. Nomex suit on... .
 
Peter/Gale:



Thanks for responding to our questions. I must say that I was VERY impressed with what you had to say and that you took time out of your schedule. Not many companies are willing to do this, they'd rather collect the cash from their customers and hope they never come back.



I haven't exactly been the biggest cheerleader for Banks products in the past - but not because they didn't perform. More than anything, from 50,000ft it appeared that we (the customers) were being asked to finance your extensive marketing campaign and impressive record breaking attempts (also marketing... ). I've grown to realize: "Who am I to decide what you're doing with your earnings?" The hatchet is buried and I no longer have an axe to grind in that regard. Enough about axes and hatchets.



I recently met a coworker who used to be employed by Cummins in an R&D role - to protect his identity, I won't provide his job title/role. Needless to say, I've chewed his ear off on many occasions. :) Eventually the subject of Banks' products came up and this individual's accounts of the Cummins/Banks relationship concurs with what Gale wrote about. Cummins provided a lot of hardware and technical expertise - but in the end, both companies gained something from it and worked together very well to accomplish a massive feat. Well done.



I've also been one of the many folks that believe in the theory that if you're running smoke free you don't have enough fuel to make good power. To some extent that is still true, but when you spend the time to really get your tune right and run some nitrous oxide through the engine - you can really clean it up. Avoiding a large plume of smoke at tip-in when you're under a no boost condition and starting to spool it up is quite difficult. I'm quite interested to see what kind of power can be made without running nitrous oxide and still be smoke free.



I'm really looking forward to hearing more about that stanalone ECU/ECM for the common-rail Cummins. I own a 4-cylinder "ISB 170" common-rail engine that will be getting cranked up quite a bit in the next few years - so I'll be watching with a keen eye on your progress.



Regards,



Matt
 
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