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I just want to know... . how in the hell am I gonna get a 2. 0 honda mated to my trans now that I know I don't have to have torque to drag race a 3/4 dodge.
 
some people just don't get it... just don't get the fact that we're not saying that torque is completely unimportant... obviously an F1 engine would have a heck of a time getting a 6,000lb truck moving off the line... we're saying that with a diesel application where torque is in abundance, horsepower should be the focus.



torque DOES NOT win at the drag strip... there are warm 12v trucks making 450hp and 1000-1100ftlbs of torque... I GUARANTEE you if you have two trucks of equal weight and aerodynamics, one being a 450hp/1100ftlb dodge and the other being a 600hp/1000tq Duramax, the Dodge is gonna get drug BAD.



big torque numbers mean nothing in these trucks... we already have more than we can really need... torque pulls stumps, breaks parts, and breaks traction... horsepower wins drag races, plain and simple!
 
Then maybe Figure heads such as yourself and Mr. Hogue shouldn't leave things to be read between the lines and taken out of context. I know and have known from the beginning when I first started following greg's build up what he was going for and understood fully what he was trying to achieve. That doesn't mean I can't make a sarcastic remark at the authors expence.



The two things I have trouble with in the article are the fact that he portayed the diesel owning masses as being ignorant to internal combustion basics, and that he left out the fact that these engine lend themselves well to hot rodding because they are inherently strong, and already have the provisions that gasonline engines often need to have added to them to withstand the power levels. . Greg only round-aboutly touched on the latter. Shove in more air, and more fuel, more efficiently, and the efficiency gain will be seen at the wheels. To me, it's not so much that I don't understand the benefeit of machine work on an engine, so much as it isn't something that has to be done, where in most cases anything over 300hp in a gasoline engine will require such.
 
biggy238 said:
Then maybe Figure heads such as yourself and Mr. Hogue shouldn't leave things to be read between the lines and taken out of context. I know and have known from the beginning when I first started following greg's build up what he was going for and understood fully what he was trying to achieve. That doesn't mean I can't make a sarcastic remark at the authors expence.



The two things I have trouble with in the article are the fact that he portayed the diesel owning masses as being ignorant to internal combustion basics, and that he left out the fact that these engine lend themselves well to hot rodding because they are inherently strong, and already have the provisions that gasonline engines often need to have added to them to withstand the power levels. . Greg only round-aboutly touched on the latter. Shove in more air, and more fuel, more efficiently, and the efficiency gain will be seen at the wheels. To me, it's not so much that I don't understand the benefeit of machine work on an engine, so much as it isn't something that has to be done, where in most cases anything over 300hp in a gasoline engine will require such.



Coming from a newspaper background, I can assure you that WAY often what comes from a person's lips isn't what hits print - so don't criticise Comp too freely - your words spoken in the same situation might not even be recognized by you after running thru the "journalist's" typewriter and printing presses - you know, sorta the same way Hollywood screws up history so bad in motion pictures that no one recognizes the events...



And don't we ALL well remember how Ford and GM always seem to rule Dodges in these magazine "comparison" tests... :-laf :-laf
 
well, Greg's good at digging himself into holes...



and please don't call me a figurehead, I'm just a po-boy addicted to diesel trying to play a rich man's game :(
 
Oh i'm Familiar... ... I was thinking about adding S to the end of my name for the fun of it. :D



Although I'm almost certain i've read the same viewpoint typed by Greg himself on here about the "sledpuller" mentallity, and it showed through in this piece.





I didn't mean what I said about the honda to just tear someone up. Like I said, it was more to demostrate how someone could take what was said out of context through the inaccuracy of how it was stated. I'm saying that I understand and agree with Forrest, Greg, and others who feel that horsepower is king on the strip. Even though I couldn't resist making the crack about the honda.
 
biggy238 said:
Oh i'm Familiar... ... I was thinking about adding S to the end of my name for the fun of it. :D



Although I'm almost certain i've read the same viewpoint typed by Greg himself on here about the "sledpuller" mentallity, and it showed through in this piece.





I didn't mean what I said about the honda to just tear someone up. Like I said, it was more to demostrate how someone could take what was said out of context through the inaccuracy of how it was stated. I'm saying that I understand and agree with Forrest, Greg, and others who feel that horsepower is king on the strip. Even though I couldn't resist making the crack about the honda.



nothing wrong w/ that :)
 
biggy238 said:
Then maybe Figure heads such as yourself and Mr. Hogue shouldn't leave things to be read between the lines and taken out of context. I know and have known from the beginning when I first started following greg's build up what he was going for and understood fully what he was trying to achieve. That doesn't mean I can't make a sarcastic remark at the authors expence.



The two things I have trouble with in the article are the fact that he portayed the diesel owning masses as being ignorant to internal combustion basics, and that he left out the fact that these engine lend themselves well to hot rodding because they are inherently strong, and already have the provisions that gasonline engines often need to have added to them to withstand the power levels. . Greg only round-aboutly touched on the latter. Shove in more air, and more fuel, more efficiently, and the efficiency gain will be seen at the wheels. To me, it's not so much that I don't understand the benefeit of machine work on an engine, so much as it isn't something that has to be done, where in most cases anything over 300hp in a gasoline engine will require such.

-----------

biggy238:



I thought your post summed things up pretty well! Good job! ;)



No offense to Greg Hogue here, but I agree with you that " he portarys the diesel owning masses as being ignorant to internal combustion basics,"... .....

IMO,... your point about Greg's comment on the "sledpuller mentality" is right on the mark too. He has regularly attacked builders such as Scheid Diesel here about the way they make H. P. , the black smoke issue etc. It is well documented. Now his new employer, Gale Banks Engineering, and himself are getting ready to field a tubular chassis 6. 6 Duramax Drag Pickup to compete against the likes of his old employer, "Dr. Performance's Tubular Chassis 5. 9 Cummins Engine Drag Truck" and trucks like Keating's to name a couple. Their "goal" is to run down that dragstrip without any black smoke! How do you do that??? Pour the coals to that engine with one heck of a shot of NOS!

Greg is also trying to do that with his "Project X" gray Dodge CTD CR Pickup that has been in the last couple of issues of "Diesel Power. " I don't know if you or any of the other members saw those articles, but at present they are falling a little short of the goal of "no smoke" as that truck is pouring "locomotive black" smoke out in several of the pictures in those

magazines! So,... ... I guess time will tell on whether they can actually field a

"smoke free diesel drag pickup!" Personally, I don't see it happening. IMO,... the argument of the Shell Audi R-10 Race Car is weak IMO because that race car was not putting out near the power some of these DHRA/NHDRA Pro-Street Drag Trucks are nor the top DHRA/PPA Sled Pulling Trucks.



As far as the "H. P. /Torque" isssue, gas v. s. diesel you guys probably know alot more about than I do about it. But it was always my understanding that "torque is what gets a load moving. " There has to be something to that when you see the "big boys" like Scheid, Watson, Haisley, Martin etc. hook up to a 50,000lb. sled at the pulling events and jerk that load from a dead stop all the way down the 300 ft. track. Just my observations... ... ... ... ... ...



--------

John_P
 
John_P said:
-----------

the argument of the Shell Audi R-10 Race Car is weak IMO because that race car was not putting out near the power some of these DHRA/NHDRA Pro-Street Drag Trucks are nor the top DHRA/PPA Sled Pulling Trucks.

The Audi R10 utilizes a special fuel and particulate filters.

It would appear to be a surprise for many people that the V12 TDI engine in the R10 is not only very quiet, but that it produces absolutely no smoke…

Baretzky: "From the very beginning it was our target that our diesel was unrecognisable, in much the same way as our production cars, as a diesel – particularly not by a cloud of smoke, but in fact through its low noise level, by its low consumption and its performance. Our goal was to develop a low emission diesel engine and we chose to go without one or two horsepower for the benefit of smoke free running. We are also using new particle filters here at Sebring for the first time, which have proven to be extremely effective till now. My colleagues from the chassis side aren’t quite as fond of them as they are actually fairly big. However, you come away with clean fingers even if you rub the tail pipe after 20 laps. This is exactly what we wanted to achieve. Our TDI engine is powerful and clean. ”



Rusty
 
Rusty:



Thanks for posting that information on that Shell/Audi R-10 Race Car! ;)



I have been in some discussions in the past and that is the argument some will come up with. I knew they were using the DPF's but was unaware of the special diesel fuel you mentioned. I guess I wonder if old Gale is going to be placing two (2) of those on his new tube chassis drag truck COMP is going to drive?? :-laf



Thanks!



-------

John_P
 
John_P said:
I knew they were using the DPF's but was unaware of the special diesel fuel you mentioned.

A little publicity blurb from Shell on the fuel:

Shell V-Power Diesel is a top performance diesel fuel designed to help modern diesel engines deliver more power, for longer. Already available at thousands of service stations across Europe, the fuel technology behind Shell V-Power Diesel has been used to create this special racing diesel for the track.



In addition to its outstanding pace, the car was also noted by the sun-kissed Sebring crowd for its unusual engine note. As the other cars deafened spectators lap after lap, the Audi R10 TDI, while among the fastest, was noticeably quieter than the competition thanks to its diesel engine.



This remarkable performance was due in part to the inclusion of exclusive Shell GTL (Gas to Liquids) Fuel in the race formulation. Shell V-Power Diesel is the first and only premium diesel to use this special synthetic fuel technology which is created from natural gas using a unique synthesis process from Shell. GTL Fuel burns cleanly and efficiently because of its outstanding purity and cetane quality.



Rusty
 
RustyJC said:
A little publicity blurb from Shell on the fuel:

...

Rusty



Nothing really special about GTL #2, other than being clear as water, doesn't smoke (in normal OTR applications), having 70 cetane and having exceptional lubricity. It's available at pumps in the US in a few select markets.



N
 
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