gauges and gauge pods?

[mongoose]

I'm sure this question has been asked and answered a couple of times before but i cant seem to find the answer i want by searching.

I have a 99 with 5 speed. I do occasional towing and mostly unloaded driving. I'm looking at gauges and debating pre or post turbo. Which is the recommened placement and which is the most beneficial?

Also which would you recommend between a second gauge: fuel pressure or boost?


------------------
Daniel McKeehan

1999 2500 QC/Short Bed/4X4 5 speed. Camper Package and of course a Cummins

[This message has been edited by mongoose (edited 05-11-2001). ]

 

[Vaman]

Just a couple thoughts on this gauge issue. I don't want to start a pre/post turbo pyro war but, in my opinion, pre-turbo to protect the engine and post turbo to protect the turbo. Take your pick though because either way you'll get an general idea of both. Also, I believe that a fuel pressure gauge is an absolute must for the 24 valvers. The list of failed lift pumps (and injection pumps) is extremely long and growing. I just installed my fuel pressure gauge and found out that my lift pump is barely supplying my injection pump (1-2 psig and no indications of a problem). Who knows how long it has been this way. Protect your injection pump by monitoring the fuel supply to it. I agree with Steve St. Laurent's setup completely... pre and post filter to monitor both the lift pump and filter status. Good luck.

------------------
98. 5 2500, 24v, 5 speed, QC, 4x4, 4. 10 LSD, short bed, Line-X liner, tow package, camper suspension, Westin nerfs, camper shell, TST PowerMax Competition, 275 RVs, Psychotty air, HX-40, 4" straight pipe exhaust, ProComp A/T 305/70/R16s, EGT/Boost pillar gauges, Grover air horns... Love my Cummins, no love for Dodge

[This message has been edited by Vaman (edited 05-11-2001). ]

 

[EMDDIESEL]

If you install the EGT Thermocouple PRE turbo, all you have to do is wait till it is at 300 degrees or less and you will not coke the turbo. At that inlet temp the turbo is below a safe level. The fuel pressure gauge is a good idea too.

 

[BFaoro]

EMD, How did you run the wires up the pillar ? inside of the A-pillar or between the plastic gauge holder and the A-pillar?

------------------
96 2500 4X4, SC, SLT, 12 valve,lost kitty, silencer ring gone, 5SP 3. 54. dana 80, Pac Brake with 60 pound valve springs, line-x liner, soon to come: Auto meter ultra lite boost and pyro gauges on A pillar,

 

[Vaman]

EMD,

There's only one problem with that practice... as someone else on this board pointed out, your exhaust gases will cool faster than that big piece of metal we call a turbo. In theory, after a sustained high power run that has essentially heated parts of your turbo to around 1000 degrees, your pre-turbo exhaust gases could be COOLER than your turbo. I'd like to see some data on this but it makes sense. Two pyros would put this to bed. I do know this, since switching to an HX-40, my post turbo cooldown times are longer which I attribute to the larger mass of the 40. I believe there are legitimate reasons for mounting either pre or post turbo and as long as you understand the limitations of either method, you'll be fine.

------------------
98. 5 2500, 24v, 5 speed, QC, 4x4, 4. 10 LSD, short bed, Line-X liner, tow package, camper suspension, Westin nerfs, camper shell, TST PowerMax Competition, 275 RVs, Psychotty air, HX-40, 4" straight pipe exhaust, ProComp A/T 305/70/R16s, EGT/Boost/Fuel pressure pillar gauges, Grover air horns... Love my Cummins, no love for Dodge

[This message has been edited by Vaman (edited 05-11-2001). ]

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

I agree with VAMAN, I have a gauge hooked to my pre-turbo pyro and a turbo temp monitor hooked to my post-turbo pyro which shuts the truck off when it gets below 300 degrees post turbo. Depending on the situation sometimes the truck will shut down at 290 degrees pre turbo other times it will be as low as 210 degrees - but the post turbo temp is still at that 300 degrees. There is definately a difference between pre and post for shutdown. What I've noticed is that if you continually decelerrate say from freeway speeds and never get on the throttle again that is the time when pre and post temps are off by the largest amount at shutdown. If you just got on it and then stopped and let the truck idle that is when they are the closest. JMHO



------------------
-Steve St. Laurent - President of the Great Lakes TDR
'98 QC LB (CMNSPWR), 4x4, ISB, 5sp, 4. 10 LSD, TST Powermax3, 275hp RV injectors, Joe Donnelly modifed Sachs Clutch, SS ladder bars, SW fuel pressure gauge, BD exhaust brake, Isspro turbo temp monitor, front Draw-Tite receiver, rear Draw-Tite class V receiver, BFG 285/75R16 AT KO's, (all the common stuff clipped)

 

[Coop]

The guys with the A-pillar gauges, is there a place for the tweeter that is on my A-pillar?

------------------
1999 24V, 4X2, auto, Psychotty Air, Line-X Bedliner, everything else stock

 

[SlyBones]

Well I would agree that the POST is better for turbo shutdown. However I would think that you really need to install a thermocouple in the turbo itself, if thats what we want to protect.

I wouldn't mind hearing from a thermodynamics expert here, but I think that the temperature of the air passing by the turbo is not directly telling you the turbo temperature either.

We are cooling the turbo by convection, correct? Passing cooler air over a warmer object. Heat transfers from the hotter object, to the cooler air, as the air passes by. Thus the post temp is hotter than the pre temp. However I suspect that the temp of the air is not a 1:1 measure of the temp of the turbo. Even if you measured the temp of the air immediately afterwards, and not several inches later.

I am sure all those physics boys with all those formulas, could tell us all about heat transfer properties, etc.

Just a thought.

 

[QRTRHRS]

I have pre and post turbo guages plus the boost on my A piller. Do you need both? Not really for the occasional puller. For serious pulling and hard running it is nice to have. Although, when your winding up like when your taking on a Power Stroke, things happen quickly and it is hard to catch a glimpse at three guages much less the road. When pulling a hard hill grossing out about 20k or so, there is plenty of time to watch it. After awhile, you establish a "baseline" and don't look at it so much but when you do, you know what to expect. Me, I like having lots of guages.

 

[EMDDIESEL]

As far as wiring, i drilled a hole in the original "A" pillar and ran the wires through, and behind it. As for the tweeter issue, Autometer makes and "A" pillar that has the tweeter hole already in it, your factory tweeter just snaps right in.

As for the EGT temp, remember, we are not concerned with how hot the turbo itself is at shutdown. What we are trying to protect is the turbine shaft bearings from coking the oil. So a pre turbo reading of 300 degrees, which tells you the exhasut entering the turbine is at 300degrees is cool enough that you would not be at risk of burning the oil onto the shaft.
That is the reason a shutdown lube oil pump is so convienient. You could shutdown your engine immediatley and not even have to wait for the EGT to reach 300 degrees if you had an oil pump that would turn on and run for about 10 minutes to supply cool oil to the bearings.
If you have the time and the money, install a Thermocouple in both places, but you can do the same thing with one mounted Pre Turbo, just wait till 300 degrees or a little less and shut it down. You are not going to hurt anything. We have run twin turbo grand nationals for years and shutdown as high as 400 degrees with no problems. And the oil temp in those engines runs a lot hotter then a diesel. If you run synthetics, you could shutdown even sooner.

 

[SFord]

For everyone with the (A-Pillar) replacement, does it actually replace the present pillar or just attach to it? Also I have the tweeter in my pillar.

------------------
2001 2500,AUTO QC,4x4,SWB,SLT PLUS W/LEATHER,HEATED SEATS,PWR ALL THE WAY,4:10 LSD,PERFORMER IAS, WARN,MAG-HYTEC DC&TRANS DD,TRUCK TRUNK BOX,KC,PATRIOT BLUE W/AGATE INT.

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

EMDDIESEL, an even easier solution than a pre-oiler/shutdown oil pump is the Isspro Turbo Temp Monitor, it simply idles the engine until below 300 degrees (that point is settable, btw) is reached then automatically shuts down. I did a write up on it in Issue #30 or #31 (30 I believe) and it's also here on the website at https://www.turbodieselregister.com/ubb//Forum3/HTML/000507.html . I had a pre-luber (from Sales Professionals) on my last truck and it was a NIGHTMARE! The pump died within a year and a half after install and they wanted $250 just to replace the oil pump! There have also been reports on here of people losing their engine's because of the pre-lube pump and leaks in the lines. It's one of my most used accessories because it's used every time I shut down and regularly when running in for coffee, or warming the truck up, etc. Besides it's too much fun to watch peoples faces when they watch me walk away from the truck with it still running (they're sitting there saying "I can't believe he's just letting his truck run"), then the punch line is when it shuts down while I'm inside (I've watched peoples eyes NEARLY pop out of their heads)!! LOL

-Steve

 

[SlyBones]

Originally posted by EMDDIESEL:
As for the EGT temp, remember, we are not concerned with how hot the turbo itself is at shutdown. What we are trying to protect is the turbine shaft bearings from coking the oil. So a pre turbo reading of 300 degrees, which tells you the exhasut entering the turbine is at 300degrees is cool enough that you would not be at risk of burning the oil onto the shaft.

I have my pyro is pre-turbo and do as you suggest. By referring to the turbo itself I guess I really meant the shaft bearing temp. I got the coking problem. I was only throwing out the idea that "maybe" the air temp does not necessarily reflect the bearing temp. I dont really know and was hoping those formula guys will chip in. The last part of the statement I highlighed made 'me' think that the turbo and post turbo air was always cooler than the incoming air. So we only have to wait for the incoming temp to drop and were done. I bet the post probe fans disagree.

 

[David Wheeler]

Steve & Coop, please check out this link into Geno's to answer your questions.
http://216. 167. 98. 200/CoastalData/showdetl. cfm?&DID=30&Product_ID=403&CATID=1

Cheers!

David

------------------
2001 3500 SLT, 4X4, ETH Cummins/DEE, LSD, 3. 54, Quad Cab, Long Bed, Agate, Camper Special Group, Towing Group, Additional Body Molding on Bed, Line-X bed-liner.

"REAL TRUCKS RATTLE!!"

 

[Michael Hughes]

You can do both a pre and post turbo probe with one gauge. Take a look at the How-To that I wrote up, you will find it at <a href=http://www.showmestate.org/stltdr/how-tos/EGT_how_to.shtml>EGT/Boost gauge install. </a>

Hope this helps!!

------------------
1999 2500 ST LB 4X4 Metallic Red, 5-speed, 3. 54 gears, LSD, camper and tow package
Westach Boost/EGT (pre and post turbo) mounted on A pillar.

 

[GRudy]

I think most would agree with me here that the most important gauge to install is the pyro, especially if you plan on doing any bombing! Pre turbo will give you the most acurate readings and will be the best way to determine safe shut down temps to protect the turbo. A boost gauge would be second. Geno's sells a real nice combo gauge by westach. I just finished installing the fuel preasure gauge setup explained elsewhere by Steve Laurant. Do a search, he has a very detailed explanation on the installation. I used the triple pod a-piller replacement and it worked great. Looks like the gauges belong there!
Have fun!

------------------
George, Perry County, PA
99 3500, Reg Cab, 4x4, NV4500, ISB, 4:10,VA box,Putco Boss
running boards, Grover air horns,Westach combo gauge, Intense Blue.

 

[EMDDIESEL]

With a standard, you need only 2 gauges, EGT and Boost. And Pre turbo is without a doubt, the place to mount your EGT Thermocouple. I have Autometers in an "A" pillar setup.

 

[Ladders]

Steve, I gots the 3 pod w/tweeter and the instructions call for putting it over the orig. Geno's has included the "proper" mounting method for this or removing the original pillar (which I did) and just installing it w/o destroying the original. I have the Agate interior and the black is "close" enuff for me that I have not painted it yet (may not). There also is enuff room by each pod for a switch (EGT pre/post, temp rear/trans, and by my boost the bed lite). My center pod is mt now, waiting temp meter etc, but I put a 2" grommet with a 1. 75" cap in the center to fill the hole (fits loose but stays in). The tweeter was a loose fit so added rtv to hold it solid. Other than that, VERRY pleased with the construction. Talked to Robert @ Sandia Showdown about quality of the full pillar mount and he convinced me it wasnt as bad as previously described on the site. Agn, I am happy with it (it is thinner than the DC original) but still solid with the 1 screw I used to hold it to the pillar - between the upper and center pods, going from pass side to drivers side. Used a dry wall screw and it holds the mount tight to the windshield so there are no "rattles".

e-mail for more info.

\\BF//

 

[EMDDIESEL]

Waiting till 150 degress pre turbo is not nessecary. 300-250 is great.

 

[X-10]

Hey EMDDIESEL, did you get an E-mail from me?
Thanks, Doug