GCWR and Federal DOT laws

[Jeff Clark]

I had someone tell me that anything over 26,000 lbs GCWR required a CDL. My Freightliner weighs in at 13,000 dry and the trailer comes in at just under 20,000 loaded with 3 cars in it. Everyone else, including several dealers we talked to, told me I don't need a CDL as long as it's recreational use. Does anyone know the truth to this or know where to find it.

 

[gwagner]

you might have to get a non comercial class A licence. just go down to your local DMV and pick up a comercial drivers hand book they have all the weights and limits that you should need.

 

[QRTRHRS]

Start here for info. http://www.fmcsa. dot.gov/rulesregs/fmcsr/fmcsrguide.htm

383. 3 and 383. 91 should be of interest to you. What exactly are you doing with your three vehicles? If you so much as garner one trophy, you are classified as a commercial venture and need to comply.



Tell us some more about what your doing, how long, is your trailer enclosed or open? Do you have "Recreation Vehicle" signs on your rig? How about insurance on the trailer? Is it insured as an RV?



You might ask the moderator to move this thread to the RV & Towing forum for better coverage. Also, do a search under CDL in that forum. This comes up often.

 

[Jeff Clark]

Good idea QRTRHRS, I'll check over there. The trailer is 36' enclosed. We have a nice collection of show cars and like to travel around to some shows around our area. The truck is classified as a heavy duty pick-up due to the style of bed instead of a tractor. The truck and trailer are both insured and we have "Not For Hire" plastered all over it.

 

[Jeff Clark]

I checked out that link. It still only pertains to commercial vehicle. If I was using this truck for commercial purposes I would have to have a Class A. In Texas I don't think you can get a Class A that is not a CDL. At least that's what I've been told. But this vehicle is not commercial. We talked to several dealers before we bought from one and they all said you don't need a special license if it is non-commercial use. They said they sell these things to RV'ers to rull those big 5ers and they don't have special licenses. I've been driving this truck for two years and so far I haven't had any problems, but I don't want to get stopped.

 

[QRTRHRS]

An enclosed trailer with "not for hire" on the rig will not attract the attention like an open gooseneck would. Around my neck of the woods, the police have stopped rigs with race cars and casually asked questions like; "so, did you'all have a good day today?" Yes, I took a first place trophy! "Gottcha"



I don't mean to imply that your dumb by asking about the insurance. Thing is, there are a lot of people who think their trailer is covered by their standard policy. The insurance companies have little utility trailers and such in mind, not 20k goosenecks.



Are you properly registered for the gross weight your coming in at? That one can be costly.



Like gwagner said, check with the Texas DOT. Going back to the main page, http://www.fmcsa. dot.gov/links.htm scroll down to the Texas site, http://www.dot. state. tx. us/



Other sites that may be of interest to you or others asking these questions are: http://www.speedingticketcentral.com/commercial-motor-vehicle.html

http://www.olblueusa.org/cdl&cmvSafetyInfoCenter/

 

[RustyJC]

Jeff,



Have you presented this question to the Texas DPS? I would ask the License & Weight group that would be the one to pull you over.



Rusty

 

[Jeff Clark]

No I haven't RustyJC. I haven't had the chance to talk to one. I'll try to if I see one stopped somewhere and he doesn't look busy.

 

[RustyJC]

Jeff,



I guess I'd call the regional office of the DPS Drivers' License division and ask to speak to the officer in charge. It's a legitimate question - I'm thinking of doing thus and such; what license will I need?



Rusty

 

[mbaston]

I have a related question on licensing. Once again I see something about licensing for gross weight. When I changed my truck's license to commercial, the DMV said that the license is based on my pickups unladen weight. My truck is registered as "Class 42". I don't know if this is just a state classification (Alaska) or DOT. Any input?

 

[Alan Reagan]

According to the CDL manual on the Georgia DMV site:



You must have a CDL to operate:

· A single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of

more than 26,000 pounds.

· A trailer with a GVWR of more than 10,000 pounds if the

gross combination weight rating is more than 26,000 pounds.



With that said, the rules for GA drivers licenses state that a CDL is not required for an RV. However, the CDL rules are recognized nationwide and the GVWR requirements are fairly consistent among the states. I have asked the DMV before and they stated what the CDL manual says about the gross weight is the trigger for the CDL.



I have been stopped and weighed on two lanes here. My license was checked and so was my fuel to make sure I wasn't using the red stuff since I was towing a tractor at the time. One of the guys was in training. I have a CDL. I'm surprised he didn't ask for a log book since they checked everything else.

 

[QRTRHRS]

Originally posted by Alan Reagan

I have been stopped and weighed on two lanes here. My license was checked and so was my fuel to make sure I wasn't using the red stuff since I was towing a tractor at the time. One of the guys was in training. I have a CDL. I'm surprised he didn't ask for a log book since they checked everything else.

Alan, when you say you were towing a tractor, do you mean a farm tractor? I don't believe ag operations need to log if operating within a 100 air mile radius.

 

[GeneA]

Marty: Be careful. When I was towing for a living and running bobtail along I-10 in NM, at a border check point the state DOT noted my commercial license, and very nearly tied me up for eight hours because I did not keep a log book while running empty. This even though I was not under contract or paid while running empty. It seems that commercial license triggered a POed response in the agent. Gene

 

[Alan Reagan]

Originally posted by QRTRHRS

Alan, when you say you were towing a tractor, do you mean a farm tractor? I don't believe ag operations need to log if operating within a 100 air mile radius.

It was in fact a farm tractor. Here, with a CDL you don't have to keep a log book running within a 50 mile radius. With everything else they checked, I was surprised they didn't ask just to see what I would say.



You know, with this thread, I think you have to look at liability, also. If you are running over the limits required for a CDL and are involved in an accident, there might be a liability issue if you don't have the license. Same applies if you are exceeding the GVW limits of the truck.

 

[Jeff Clark]

Originally posted by Alan Reagan

You know, with this thread, I think you have to look at liability, also. If you are running over the limits required for a CDL and are involved in an accident, there might be a liability issue if you don't have the license. Same applies if you are exceeding the GVW limits of the truck.

I've thought of that two. But were still talking about running commercially. I'm under the limit of the truck, so I have no problem there. The new trailer I have has a bathroom and a small living quarter, so I think I can get by registering it as a RV. I talked to another guy yesterday with the exact same truck as me. He said he has been pulled over twice since he bought the truck (less then 1 year) with the DPS wanting to see his CDL and logbook. He told them this was non-commercial, and both times they let him go. I've had this truck two years and haven't even had a DPS officer look twice at me.

 

[Alan Reagan]

I was at a meeting in Atlanta today and met a DMVS officer (Georgia DOT, Motor Vehicle Safety). He told me that they can hold drivers to the limits I mentioned above. Go above 26,001 and you have to have the license. However, he said that normally they will let the RVs or recreational drivers towing cars, tractors, etc that they will not enforce the CDL requirement. However, if there is any indication that you are profiting from the vehicle, you can/will be charged. His example was using an RV to tow a car and the RV is a mobile office. That is a "for profit" operation and must have the CDL. He indicated that he thought it was just a matter of time before Georgia and other states clarify the law and begin to enforce it. His thoughts included people driving the larger RVs with no experience and no idea of the ramifications of driving something that big down the highway. I agree, a license doesn't make a better driver. But it is a start. All states require a driving test now for a CDL and I think that people should have to prove they can successfully drive a vehicle over 26K pounds if they are going to get on the road with other drivers that have to do the same (truck and bus drivers) for their safety and mine.

 

[SSage]

I do have to say it would look funny taking a Class A driving test in a Dodge dually...



I should gross out around 21 to 23K when towing our farm tractor on a 30' over all flat bed tag. It all depends on whats in the bed. The one thing that I'm not sure about is towing utility trailers over 10K. My GA CDL manual limits all non-rv and non-farm to 10K. Seems like everyone pulling around here has been fine. I've never been stopped while driving the Dodge 3500.



One thing I find odd, is that the average person can drive a small dump truck with a 10 speed road ranger and air brakes as long as the GVWR is under 26,001 without a CDL. Most people would have no clue how to shift without grinding or having to start over because they keep hitting the clutch brake they know nothing about. You should know how the air brakes work, what that air pressure guage is for and how to shift the heavier tranmissions before getting out on busy roads.



But a Class A CDL for a pick up thats whithin the GCWR... I hope not. A dually with a 10 ton GN fully loaded would probably get some attention, while a 18K plus RV trailer is fine? No fair!

 

[Eric Kahn]

Air brakes on a truck under 26k will also trigger the CDL requirements if it is a commercial truck which is why the majority of straight trucks now don't have them unless they have 3 axles

 

[SSage]

Originally posted by Eric Kahn

Air brakes on a truck under 26k will also trigger the CDL requirements if it is a commercial truck which is why the majority of straight trucks now don't have them unless they have 3 axles

Well, they don't enforce the Air Brake CDL requirement here in GA. Our company has a few of those non-CDL trucks, International single axle dumps. But, the company wants everyone to attain a Class A CDL so, they can purchase real dump trucks and tractors. We have quite a few 36K trailer loads now.



When I was looking at diesel pusher motorhomes, many had air brakes too with weights around 36 to 40K. I already have a CDL with most endorsements and I've yet to be stopped by the DOT after 7 plus years. But, I stay legal all of the time. I just purchased a big trailer for my dually, I'll probably get stopped in my personal truck.

 

[Alan Reagan]

SSage, The 10K trailer only kicks in when the GVWR goes over 26,001. I believe the main reason I was stopped and weighed here was to ensure I wasn't running off road fuel. While they were at it, they made sure I wasn't exceeding the truck limits as well. I know people are going to squawk as these limits are enforced, but if you think about it, we have motorcycle licenses already. I think we will either see a CDL requirement enforced for GVWR over 26,001 or we will see an RV class license.



Going back to the original topic, I would get the CDL to avoid the possibility of a problem from the DOT guys.