Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Gimme a VP-44...to go!

[Ncostello]

Well, my injector installation was a success. 6 RV275's are now resting snugly in the cylinder head of my 99. No leaks, easy start up afterwards. Runs smooth while driving... BUT I still have the idle miss.



I took out the IAT sensor. It looked a little oily, cleaned it right up with electrical contact cleaner, ohmed it at 10. 5K at 77 degrees, re-installed. Only took 5 minutes, so I figured I'd at least check it.



As a recap, at 79000 miles, I bought it used. Very clean nice looking Quad Cab. When I first got it, I had an intermittant tachometer, check engine light, LP wouldn't refill the cannister after a filter change, and an idle miss. Here is what I have done:



1. Crankshaft position sensor was bad. Installed new one.

2. Replaced fuel filter

3. Replaced lift pump (now primes good)

4. Cleaned IAT sensor and ohm checked good

5. Raycor Biocide in two tanks and Performance Formula

6. Made sure roll-over cap was removed on tank

7. Checked for any leaks anywhere.

8. Installed new injectors (after Schied told me three were bad)

9. Another new fuel filter



All the problems are solved except...



I still have the intermittant idle miss. . once its warmed up to operating temperature. Its like for every 18 good fires of the cylinders, one will just not fire. I can hear it, I can feel it and it is driving me crazy. And probably driving you all crazy cause I keep bringing it up. But I will not fail... I will fix this problem and then be satisfied. But until then I cannot.



I had a good friend who is a mechanic at a Case/IH dealer listen to it and he plainly heard it. His comment was that it just wasn't getting any fuel at that time and the combustion didn't occur.



All I can do now is go and get the VP-44 replaced under warranty. I will fight this one out till the end... until it gets fixed. I will go through what ever it takes to get me the latest and greatest version of this pump... under warranty. If one dealer wont pay for it, then I'll go to the next until someone does.



I'm glad I didn't pay to have Schied install injectors. I would have been out at least another $300 for nothing. If a new VP dont cure this, I dont think I can live with this truck missing every time I roll to a stop. I will go crazy for sure. Sure glad I still have my old F-150 to drive. 198,000 miles, 300 6-cyl inline, all original including the dang fuel pump.



"Bigger injectors... what bigger injectors??? Its all stock... and don't touch my valve cover!". . hehe

 

[Stroke This 24V]

There is a dealer in Salem IN

The gentleman in the shop has his ways of getting what he wants from Chrysler. PM and I will let you know more

 

[AggieJustin]

The VP44 should take care of it. A friend of mines '99 had the same kind of miss when it was warmed up.



New transfer pump and VP44 put in under warranty... problem solved.



Now I've got to get him a Fuel Pressure gauge to keep tabs on that lift pump.

 

[15w40]

Before you lay out the $$$ for a new VP44, get some more info on the injection pumps used on the ETC engines. My 98. 5 has always had an idle miss when the outside temperature is about 55*F. Ten degrees warmer or colder and the miss is gone. Someone once said the miss is caused by the injection timing changing at a certain temperature where the ECM can’t decide if the timing should be advanced or not. Later Cummins ISB’s did not have this problem because different programming was used.



I have lived with the slight idle miss every fall and spring since my truck was new. It also seems to be worse when the fuel is blended for winter temperatures.



Have you noticed the miss in summer heat? Mine is smooth with high temps, and summer fuel.

 

[Ncostello]

My friend at Case/IH listened to it for 5 seconds and said the timing was not right... he was sure of it. But he dont work on these engines either.



Mine does this whether is 95 degrees out or 35 degrees out. The only time it dont do it is when the engine has not reached full operating temps yet. When its warm, its guaranteed to do this every time it goes to idle. After a minute or two of idling, it will finally smooth out and sound normal.



My response to my friend was that the computer electronics handled the timing and there was little I could do about it. He said there still should be an adjustment, but I didn't agree.



Maybe a "re-flash" is what I need... but I really dont know what that will do.



Either way, this is going to be full warranty work. I'm not paying for this one. I contacted a dealer about 30 miles away (not my closest) and they said they were interested in helping me with a new injector pump, even after I told them I had replaced everything but the pump itself. We'll see how that goes if it even goes.....

 

[Royal]

The next thing I would do is get a good test with a genuine Cummins electronic tester. All cummins dealers and many Bosch service dealers have them. Don't use the Mickey Mouse read out hand held testors that the Dodge dealers use. The Cummins testor cost about $1500 bucks and requires a lap top computer to read out info. It will even tell you how many times your igniton key has been cycled since new,and the fastest speed it has ever run. I don't know what they charge in your area,but it will be the best money you can spend.

 

[fj40charles]

Royal,



Does this Cummins tester measure pressure output for the VP44? What exactly will it find? I'm trying to debug a low HP problem and I don't know it is the VP44 or not. It runs real well, but I don't feel like I'm getting enough fueling since the EGT does not get real hot driving unloaded.



Charles

 

[Royal]

The Cummins analyzer checks most everything and even trouble shoots for the technician. You can stop the Vp from injecting fuel to any cylinder,and you can stop more than one at a time. I have seen them run the engine with only Two (2) cylinders fireing. It shakes the truck a little ,but it keeps going. It will completely check all systems on the engine. Its expensive but it takes all the guess work out of trouble shooting the kind of problems this gentelman has. All he is doing now is swaping parts and guessing what to try next.

 

[Ncostello]

Schied is Bosch and Cummins certified. They "analyzed" my system and I would imagine they used this setup as I saw the truck revving up via computer control (a laptop was hooked up to it). They told me I had three bad injectors with this high tech gadgetry. I replaced all six. No change in my engine problem. Hmmm. Suppose I could have them check the injector pump too, which I believe was bad at this time also. I may ask them to do this for free as I feel I got charged for nothing really. In fact I spent another $300 to buy my injectors from their performance store, Direct Injection Inc. I think its the least they could do. They I'll see if my Dodge dealership will pay Schied to install a new VP44 if its bad. They do fuel parts warranty work for my dealer.



If they can give me paperwork showing its bad, then my dealer will be much easier to deal with in getting them to pay for this.

 

[Reb.B]

This is what u NEED to do. Put dialectic grease, (anti oxident grease) on every connection in the engine compartment. vp44, ecm, pcm, cam sen, crank sen, map, and ait. Do this once a year, ... almost positive this will take care of your problem. also put it on the throttle pos sen, ... and put a bunch on too when u are doing it. This has solved these vp 44 problem before, especially the miss. this should always be the first thing to try to diagnose a vp 44 prob

 

[fj40charles]

Reb B.



I never heard of anyone putting dielectric grease on the PCM and ECM connectionsd. These connections should be well sealed. I removed most of the dielelectric grease from the IAT and MAP sensors because I think I over did it and put too much preventing a good contact.



Have you seen improvements? I'm tryhing to diagnose a low power problem.



Thanks,

Charles

 

[Ncostello]

I thought dielectric grease DIDN'T conduct electricity. I used to seal up caps on distributors with it and used it to mount HEI modules in distributors, and on spark plug bodies to make getting the boots off easier. But I never used it on the actual connections themselves for fear that it wouldn't make good connections with grease in the way. But it sounds like its worth a try... its something I can do cheap and easy.



And I am assuming dielectric grease dosen't conduct electricity otherwise if you put it on multi-pin connectors, it would short all of them out... right?

 

[Reb.B]

it does not conduct electricity, but it works! do it. all of our connections come with grease from the factory. Please do it. i went through $500 dollars worth of parts, stuck in the middle of Montana, and $1. 50 tube of anti-oxident grease took care of the whole problem. Truck would miss, ... okay, no prob. , then got worse and worse, i could only drive 100 miles or so and it would die on me. Haven't had a problem since, and that was 5 months ago. No miss, nada, runs great. But i'm in the process of doing the best preventative maintenance now with my vp 44, i'm pulling it off and going with a P 7100, 215hp pump. I'm sure as time goes by this will be common practice, cause the VP 44 is not as reliable as the CTD, and makes the 98. 5-02 CDT unreliable as well. But to each there own. For now, Please put that gease all over, It Works. Abd there isn't anything more unnerving that not know when that VP 44 is gonna miss again. Let me know how it works.

 

[Reb.B]

Charles, explain the low power problem a little.

 

[fj40charles]

Reb B.



With DD2 and PE comp and PDR HX40, I only dyno'd 326 HP at the last dyno. Lot of the guys complained that the dyno was reading low. Some as low as 50 to 60 HP (Kat Diesel) from a different dyno run. Previous dyno run with just DD2 and EZ, I made 303 HP.



I checked all of the boost clamps and don't feel there is a leak since I can get 30 PSI of boost with the comp box turned off.



I figure I should be able to get 40 PSI of boost since I've got the adjustable boost elbow very tight and I'm not seeing high EGT. This would lead me to believe it is a fueling issue.



I swapped out the MAP sensor and cleaned the IAT.



This morning, I was driving on the highway and I was in 5th gear (I have a 6 speed) and mashed on the throttle with Comp on 3x3.

I got up to about 35 PSI of boost and it missed a few times when the throttle was all the way down. This leads me to believe the injection pump is not putting out enough fuel. I've got plenty of fuel pressure with my dual pump setup. I changed the fuel filter about 3 days ago.



I sure feels like my truck is missing and could be the VP44 just not pumping enough fuel.



Anyone have any ideas?



Charles

 

[Ncostello]

I'll try the grease, I promise. A question, do I need to put it on any connections on the VP itself??



Oh, and one more question. You speak of a P7100 in your engines future. Tell me, does this bolt up to the 24V engine. I mean, is it really feasible. How does it get engine oil lubrication. My work has a 95' 3500 with the P7100. Maybe I should take a look at it. Does the P7100 put out the pressure like the VP-44. This sounds interesting.

 

[fj40charles]

Neil,



P7100 conversion on 24V motor is very expensive. I think you'd be looking at 6k to 10K for the conversion. Yes the P7100 will allow you to fuel MUCH more than a VP44 and still be reliable. It is not a direct bolt on. Lots of custom work is needed.



You have to do alot of stuff to swap the injection pump out. I would certainly take this route if the cost was much less.



I have this feeling that in the next few years, P7100 on a 24V will be pretty common.



charles

 

[Ncostello]

FJ40,



My search yeilded all the things I needed to know. I don't think I'll be doing this anytime soon. I'll just take a new VP-44... to go! Oh ya, and a pusher pump.



PS: Schied is now selling that spin on filter/pusher pump unit made by stanadyne. They sell it with or without the engine mount bracket. I'd like to try one but I'd rather mount it back by the tank. They also claim it pumps through easily if it somehow failed.



I'm still gonna try checking all the connections. I am also gonna seriously pursue a warranty replacement of the VP beginning tomorrow. Once I get that done... I'm upgrading the fuel line sizes, and pusher pump. I think the VP is OK for me... as long as its free.

 

[Reb.B]

the conversion is going to cost me below 2K. It isn't that bad actually. Its just the little things. If u do it right and do the work yourself, it is affordable. Yes, put the grease on the VP 44. on the vehicles with the void sticker on the plug in u need to get a new stiker. i really believe that people are diagnosing dead pumps, when all it is is a bad connection. My truck would not start. after about a half hour it would start again. after the gease, no more problems.

 

[fj40charles]

Reb,



Where is the connection on the VP44? Are you talking about the wiring harness that connects to the VP44? Never thought about this... . I'm still doing what I can to make darn sure it really is the VP44.



Please let me know how the P7100 conversion goes. I would love to do this, but I don't have the mechanical expertise, time, most importantly money.



Charles