Guns, Bows, Shooting Sports, and Hunting Glock or?

[Killgore]

There is a lot of good advice on here, from some folks who obviously know their stuff. My wife and I spent our time in the law enforcement community and for ten years I taught the Civilian Firearms Indoctrination Course offered by our Sheriff, etc. etc. That being said, a decision should first be made as to whether to purchase a revolver or semi-auto. The revolver is obviously less complicated and requires less training to gain some degree of proficiency. It is less prone to malfunction, just keep pulling the trigger verses clearing the auto after a jam. Some might suggest that it doesn't have a safety, but you aren't going to put your finger on the trigger until ready to fire it anyway, right?

My wife carries a Taurus 85CH; a .38 double-action revolver with a bobbed hammer with probably a 15 lb. trigger pull. It doesn't snag in her purse, fits easily in the glove-box, isn't prone to accidental discharges from a nervous stressed-out finger that shouldn't be on the trigger, and fires a pretty devastating round. I put some Pacmayr grips on it to absorb some shock and better fit her hands. This particular set-up is probably the most popular now with the women in the family.

You asked about Glocks: I bought my first in 1992 and thought at the time that this has got to be one ugly weapon. Since that time I've never been more than arm's length from one. I clean it maybe once a year, take it where-ever, out-shoot my BIL and his beautiful Kimber, and run reloads through it with never a problem. Through the years I've been dumped on the pavement, gone days in the rain and mud, and had it covered in horse lather, but Dr. Glock built the perfect service weapon in my opinion.

Whatever you end up with, she needs to practice, practice, practice.

- Ed

 

[BSeyler]

I'm sorry, I know I'm old and been out of the military for 4 decades, but last I knew, not one person can finish basic training (man or woman) without knowing, handling, and qualifying on rifles, handguns, frags and more.

What happened ?????

I asked both daughters who were in the army about handgun training. The eldest went for basic training in '96 and doesn't remember for sure. The one that is looking at a pistol said she did not receive handgun training. They both went to Ft. Jackson. I'll ask my son when I can catch up with him. He went to Ft. Leonard Wood in 2001. My son got out a couple of years ago. He said a lot has changed...

 

[BoeingDiesel]

Thank you one and all, I appreciate your insight. Something that really caught my eye was the California limitations on handguns. Everything I picked [for me] was not on the list but we’re planning on spending more time in Texas home this year…no problems there. This might seem a little strange but there is something very exhilarating in visualizing my bride walking our land… well heeled.

 

[mrbb]

my 2 cents
owned a gun store for many yrs, sold 17,000+ guns
trained shooters of all ages on all weapons from small to class III(was also a class II dealer)
MY advice is this, take wife, daughter who ever to GO look at guns, have them handle different one's they THINK they like
I think a revolver is a way to go
BUT keep in mind small and caliber can be a deal breaker on recoil

NEXT after new possible owner finds some they FEEL fits there HANDS WELL, back off and do a little research on models they LIKED
a GUN that fits there hand , they will ALWAYS shoot better than a high end gun that doesn't
remember this GUN is for THEM NOT YOU

next, see if any shops near you have a indoor range and will let you test fire the guns you like
a PLUS if they also have a used one in like gun to try!

a GUN only works IF the shooter is GOOD and comfortable with it, in both carrying it and shooting it
don't buy the cheapest you can find and NO need for the most expensive either

IMO too many folks recommend guns by what THEY want or like best, and NOT always what's best for the new owner
find what fits there hand best and go from there!
practice is the best money you can spend too(or good training) even a cheap gun can be accurate in the right hand, yet a super accurate gun can be a a BIG miss in the wrong hands
learn to shot what FITS you and you will always shoot better!

talk to shotgun shooters, they will learn you in FIT, same deal in hand guns!

My 2 cents

 

[Cooper_D]

I second this mrbb:
"I think a revolver is a way to go"

 

[GHarman]

I have been following this thread and thought I would add a couple of things that every beginner needs to understand!
#1. For every CCW class out there, there is a Martial Arts training class that teaches the student how to disarm someone!
If You Draw Your weapon, be prepared to use it and retain it! Train, Train, Train!!! Retain, Retain, Retain!

#2. Here is a short video showing the gun vs knife confrontation. How fast are You?
https://www.sofmag.com/knife-vs-gun-the-21-foot-rule/

GregH

 

[mrbb]

I have been following this thread and thought I would add a couple of things that every beginner needs to understand!
#1. For every CCW class out there, there is a Martial Arts training class that teaches the student how to disarm someone!
If You Draw Your weapon, be prepared to use it and retain it! Train, Train, Train!!! Retain, Retain, Retain!

#2. Here is a short video showing the gun vs knife confrontation. How fast are You?
https://www.sofmag.com/knife-vs-gun-the-21-foot-rule/

GregH

I agree with you, training is a HUGE key( muscle memory)

and its also a GOOD thing that MOST crooks are NOT trained very well, will always be exceptions to any rule
but in general most are not that skilled or 100% full.sure of WHAT there going to do or how far they will go, which many times can leave a little more reaction time into things!

as most are not skilled or many things are NOT planned when they attack, and most I bet don't expect the victim to be trained OR armed or better yet BOTH!

I'm also a BIG fan of martial arts, great way to stay in shape if nothing else LOL
but all comes down to each case at the time and the people involved
NO substitute for training folks, a gun is ONLY a tool, only works as well as you know how to work it!

and LAST MANY states don't even have a training class to get a CCW permit!, its JUST have a clean record and pay for it and you get one(like MY home state of PA)
after SO many yrs of selling and training people, I honestly have seen a TON of gun owners that couldn't hit me at 30 ft with a full mag, KNOWING i'd be standing there
never mind them in a reaction event LOL< but dumb luck can happen , know of a few that did kill when the time came, and honestly they all could be called DUMB luck shots, as I know the details very well on a few and I agree, pure luck over skill
BUT they had the gun to use on hand and knew HOW to use it
accuracy wasn't the main goal at the time of there shootings, more of a point and hope as time wasn't there to be aiming much!

 

[BIGNASTY]

I'm sorry, I know I'm old and been out of the military for 4 decades, but last I knew, not one person can finish basic training (man or woman) without knowing, handling, and qualifying on rifles, handguns, frags and more.

What happened ?????

The Military has become Sensitive!! & understanding of ones feelings that aren't to be violated because in todays Military they have choices. :-laf

 

[BIGNASTY]

my 2 cents
owned a gun store for many yrs, sold 17,000+ guns
trained shooters of all ages on all weapons from small to class III(was also a class II dealer)
MY advice is this, take wife, daughter who ever to GO look at guns, have them handle different one's they THINK they like
I think a revolver is a way to go
BUT keep in mind small and caliber can be a deal breaker on recoil

NEXT after new possible owner finds some they FEEL fits there HANDS WELL, back off and do a little research on models they LIKED
a GUN that fits there hand , they will ALWAYS shoot better than a high end gun that doesn't
remember this GUN is for THEM NOT YOU

next, see if any shops near you have a indoor range and will let you test fire the guns you like
a PLUS if they also have a used one in like gun to try!

a GUN only works IF the shooter is GOOD and comfortable with it, in both carrying it and shooting it
don't buy the cheapest you can find and NO need for the most expensive either

IMO too many folks recommend guns by what THEY want or like best, and NOT always what's best for the new owner
find what fits there hand best and go from there!
practice is the best money you can spend too(or good training) even a cheap gun can be accurate in the right hand, yet a super accurate gun can be a a BIG miss in the wrong hands
learn to shot what FITS you and you will always shoot better!

talk to shotgun shooters, they will learn you in FIT, same deal in hand guns!

My 2 cents

Thank You !!

 

[AMink]

Definitely have her handle as many guns as possible before making a decision. Keep in mind that the small "pocket" guns, i.e. many of the micro .380's and 9mm's are easy to conceal but not easy to shoot. They still have recoil and can be tough to tame with defensive powered ammo. What will she wear? What is her body type? It's hard to hide a full size anything on a small person. Will she carry it on her or in a purse/bag? I don't like the purse carry as a purse can be removed from the owners possession quickly. Not that I carry a purse!:roll eyes:

Find a good class in your area. I have found it's better to have someone else teach your wife/husband/significant other. Way less stress for both of you. This comes from personal experience and working at a shooting range. Many women can outshoot men with a little practice. No machismo to get in the way, I guess.

You can have a gun that she can shoot for fun and use for protection but sometimes that doesn't work so well. Yes, she should shoot her protection gun but chances are a small revolver/pistol is going to be frustratingly inaccurate at much over 5 yards. A good target gun may be too big for her to conceal.

Bottom line, what will she actually CARRY? I CCW a S&W Airweight .38 because it's easy, light, and very concealable. I also have a Springfield XD .40 Subcompact which, while fairly small, is harder for me to conceal. I'd rather have 5 shots on me than 10 or 15 in the safe at home. Of course, 15 won't be a problem for you in CA! CA sucks that way.

Good luck!

 

[BIGNASTY]

definitely have her handle as many guns as possible before making a decision.

Find a good class in your area. I have found it's better to have someone else teach your wife/husband/significant other. Way less stress for both of you. This comes from personal experience and working at a shooting range. Many women can outshoot men with a little practice. No machismo to get in the way, i guess.

You can have a gun that she can shoot for fun and use for protection but sometimes that doesn't work so well. Yes, she should shoot her protection gun but chances are a small revolver/pistol is going to be frustratingly inaccurate at much over 5 yards. A good target gun may be too big for her to conceal.



Good luck!

again thank you!!

 

[BIGNASTY]

I have been following this thread and thought I would add a couple of things that every beginner needs to understand!
#1. For every CCW class out there, there is a Martial Arts training class that teaches the student how to disarm someone!
If You Draw Your weapon, be prepared to use it and retain it! Train, Train, Train!!! Retain, Retain, Retain!

#2. Here is a short video showing the gun vs knife confrontation. How fast are You?
https://www.sofmag.com/knife-vs-gun-the-21-foot-rule/

GregH

And not any that I wanted to watch had their hand on their weapon. IN TODAYS WORLD the cops (and rightly so ) have their hands on their sidearm for a Jaywalking violation, look for a better video. Defensive hand techniques are a bit more than watching a few videos and being called Weed hopper by David Carradine.

The first advice that MANY (that are actually trying to help people) Don't get yourself into a bad position IN THE FIRST PLACE. Don't go to the wrong side of the tracks at 2am, Don't go shopping at night and park in a dark area, have your keys ready BEFORE you get to your car. Pull your head out of your ? and look around as your out walking to and from an establishment instead of talking about how good the sale was in the Dollar store. People get themselves in a world of ???? that more than not they could have avoided with a little thought.

There's a WHOLE WORLD OF DIFFERENCE in the Classroom training session vs having a real gun pointed at you in a parking lot with you hands full of stuff, and surprised because of the HEAD UP THE ? syndrome

BTJMO

 

[ranger 393]

And not any that I wanted to watch had their hand on their weapon. IN TODAYS WORLD the cops (and rightly so ) have their hands on their sidearm for a Jaywalking violation, look for a better video. Defensive hand techniques are a bit more than watching a few videos and being called Weed hopper by David Carradine.

The first advice that MANY (that are actually trying to help people) Don't get yourself into a bad position IN THE FIRST PLACE. Don't go to the wrong side of the tracks at 2am, Don't go shopping at night and park in a dark area, have your keys ready BEFORE you get to your car. Pull your head out of your ? and look around as your out walking to and from an establishment instead of talking about how good the sale was in the Dollar store. People get themselves in a world of ???? that more than not they could have avoided with a little thought.

There's a WHOLE WORLD OF DIFFERENCE in the Classroom training session vs having a real gun pointed at you in a parking lot with you hands full of stuff, and surprised because of the HEAD UP THE ? syndrome

BTJMO

Good advice, I agree with the video that a man with a knife can be on you before you have time to react, with that being said, they should have never walked up on someone that close. I know things happen, but distance is you friend, in real world situations I know things can happen before you know it, but we hope training will take over in those situations. I agree there are a lot of people walking around with blinders on and don't pay attention to their surroundings, this is who the criminals prey on.

 

[mrbb]

Definitely have her handle as many guns as possible before making a decision. Keep in mind that the small "pocket" guns, i.e. many of the micro .380's and 9mm's are easy to conceal but not easy to shoot. They still have recoil and can be tough to tame with defensive powered ammo. What will she wear? What is her body type? It's hard to hide a full size anything on a small person. Will she carry it on her or in a purse/bag? I don't like the purse carry as a purse can be removed from the owners possession quickly. Not that I carry a purse!:roll eyes:

Find a good class in your area. I have found it's better to have someone else teach your wife/husband/significant other. Way less stress for both of you. This comes from personal experience and working at a shooting range. Many women can outshoot men with a little practice. No machismo to get in the way, I guess.

You can have a gun that she can shoot for fun and use for protection but sometimes that doesn't work so well. Yes, she should shoot her protection gun but chances are a small revolver/pistol is going to be frustratingly inaccurate at much over 5 yards. A good target gun may be too big for her to conceal.

Bottom line, what will she actually CARRY? I CCW a S&W Airweight .38 because it's easy, light, and very concealable. I also have a Springfield XD .40 Subcompact which, while fairly small, is harder for me to conceal. I'd rather have 5 shots on me than 10 or 15 in the safe at home. Of course, 15 won't be a problem for you in CA! CA sucks that way.

Good luck!

I second the fact WOMEN were always easier to TRAIN
they tend to listen more, and DON"T have pre conceived idea's on HOW to do better than ME the instructor is telling them
NOT as set in there ways and just more open to learn RIGHT the first time, and NOT having to break BAD habits so many can have, that HAVE SOME shooting experience
way easier to start with a clean slate when training!!

 

[BoeingDiesel]

Hmmm...easier to train. Some stats; My wife is 5'5" about 115-lbs plays a lot of tennis. does yoga, and works out everyday. I might also add she looks to be at least 10 years younger than her husband. We were in a grocery store some time back and this guy maybe in his 30's was flirting with her. I suppose that can be attributed to "clean living." Anyhow, for an older gal' she could definitely make it difficult for a would be attacker, but I will feel much more comfortable knowing that she will have an extra added level of security. I have no intention of adding to her training and will leave that to the pros'. The next couple weeks we'll be going to the local range so she can explore the many options available and I'm confident she will make a good choice in a handgun. Thank you TDR brothers...I do appreciate your feedback.
gregg

Happy New Year to all!

 

[GHarman]

RIGHT On! Brother BIG!
GregH

 

[Buffalo]

I'd be concerned about buying a gun from a gun show. I've purchased items from a show that comes to town a number of times/year and the item broke (not a gun) shortly after the show had left town. Eventually, I was able to exchange the item at a later show. However, each time you go to a show, you have to pay money to get in and sometimes for parking. I think a local gun store that will be there tomorrow & next year might be a good idea in case your wife doesn't like the gun.
The shooting range that rents guns is a good idea!!! I bought a Glock Mod. 19, Generation 4, 9 mm. & have had problems hitting targets that are close. I've only carried the gun one time in a CCW style I just don't trust my ability to hit a target in an emergency. I chose the Glock because of its legendary reputation for reliability. In the very early '90's, I took a series of defensive shooting classes north of Phoenix. At times, some of the guys shooting semi-auto's had a difficult time with "jams" in their guns rendering them unusable. I had a Smith & Wesson Mod. 66, 4" barrel that I had customized to fit me as perfectly as possible. That S&W NEVER jammed-up, or failed to fire. And if it had, just pull the trigger again. I love the S&W revolver. And, I got pretty good using it at the time. I bought the Glock because I had heard that the new semi-auto's were excellent and used by police dept's. & military. Needless to say, I'm disappointed with my Glock however, I'm pretty sure that the gun is NOT AT FAULT in my case. This gun has an excellent reputation and, I DON'T!!!! I'm going to invest in some classes and figure out how to shoot this gun, accurately.
Have any of you seen the video of the guy that was caught on video shooting the police officer in Philadelphia with a stolen, 9mm. police officers gun while yelling that he was doing this in the name of ISIS. They think he was a black muslim that was radicalized in prison for infractions that included firearms violations. That guy fired 13 rounds at the police officer including having the gun, his hand & wrist INSIDE the police car on the drivers side (where the officer was sitting). He, luckily, only hit the officer 3 times in the left arm before running off. The officer was able to get out of the car and chase the guy and get some shots off hitting the guy in the buttocks.
Just another thought, if you choose a revolver and are worried about the carrying capacity of a revolver, find someone that is familiar with speed loaders for revolvers and have them teach your wife how to reload a revolver. I had to learn how & practiced in my family room and could do the entire procedure without looking at the gun, so I could keep an eye on the target. After a bit of practice, I could do that procedure very well and quickly.
If you really want a semi-auto, take a good look at the Smith & Wesson line of 9mm. guns. They fit my had better & I hear they are quality, reliable weapons that are supposed to be as good as the Glock is. A friend of mine who is a retired Michigan State Police Officer recently bought one and loves it. If I can't adapt to my Glock #19, I'm going to sell it and seriously look at the S&W.
Good luck in your search and take your time to get the "right gun" for your wife. If she's happy with it, she'll carry it with confidence. If not, it will sit at home and do her no good, at all. Thee are a lot of really good ideas to help you in your search, on this thread. It always amazes me at the level of experience so many of these members have.
Joe

 

[Killgore]

My apologies for continuing a thread that has been covered so well by so many knowledgeable members, and also my remarks that diverge from the OP's original question:

For many years I was an instructor for NRA's "Refuse to be a Victim" Course which was presented in conjunction with the Sheriff's 'Civilian Firearms Indoctrination Class'. During the seminar I stressed the criminal mindset, situational awareness, and Col. Jeff Cooper's levels of threat perception. BIG touched on this; development of the sixth sense that tells you that if you have a feeling that things are not right for some reason, they probably aren't, and the best course of action is to immediately leave.

One area that the NRA doesn't delve into is the management of the adrenaline rush that is referred to many times as the 'fight or flight' syndrome that is a natural reaction of the human body when the perceived threat triggers a special hormone package to be dumped into the blood-stream resulting in tunnel vision, loss of hearing, everything slows down, elevated blood pressure, increased strength, dulled senses relative to pain, etc, etc. This is the self-defense mechanism or survival mode that is employed by the body to survive the situation and it is an asset that must be recognized for what it is, managed, controlled, and utilized. It is one of the reasons that major decisions must be made ahead of time if possible, while the brain is still functioning in a rational manner, so that a plan or strategy is hopefully employed if everything goes sour. Consider: Do you have the ability to take a life considering moral ramifications, possible liability or criminal charges; are you willing to suffer at the hands of an assailant; or, are you carrying this weapon with the idea that you will wave it in the face of an assailant and just hope that he is scared away? Having the proper mindset is number 1. You must first decide that 'I will not become a victim!'

To make a long story short, twenty-five years ago I came to that crossroads. I recognized the impending threat, quickly developed alternatives to events before they unfolded, had the proper mindset, controlled the adrenaline rush, and acted proactively when the threat became reality. I survived two successive carjackings while broken down on the side of the road, late at night in downtown Birmingham. Did it affect me? You bet it did! As a result, I left an engineering career and went into law enforcement from which I have since retired. Why? Because I never wished to see another go through what I had experienced, and I swore I would do what I could to keep anybody from being put in that predicament.

As a word of advice, if something of this nature ever happens to you and you make a fateful decision, refrain from the urge to talk without the presence of an attorney. How the event is articulated will have an extreme bearing on possible actions should you have to go before a magistrate.

- Ed

 

[BoeingDiesel]

Thank you Buffalo and Kilgore. Odds are there will be no purchase at the upcoming gun show but will give my wife the opportunity to handle different styles of revolvers and semi auto handguns.
Kilgore, you hit on exactly what I want in training for my wife.
Thanks to all
g

 

[Killgore]

BoeingDiesel, call the "Refuse to be a Victim" number at (800) 861-1166 to locate a seminar to be held in your area. The instructor may or may not get into a presentation on preferred weapons of choice depending on whether or not he has been there, done that, and has the T-shirt, probably for liability reasons. I use to start right off by demonstrating different forms of concealment. Irregardless, some very good information will be covered and it will put your wife on her toes.

- Ed