Good News: Chrysler to be exchanged...

[AKaiser]

Yep, that outsourcing in seeking lower costs has really gone well for Boeing's commercial aircraft sector hasn't it? The cost to the corporation for assembly errors and substandard workmanship from the non indigenous parts resulted in an aircraft that has been delayed longer than any other in Boeing's history.

The result is that Boeing has lost 100's of millions of dollars on the 787 program before it even takes to the air for the first time. Which, is now projected to be 2. 5 years after it was supposed to.



That combined with a 2 month strike will cost the company close to a billion dollars before the 787 is in the air.



How many years worth of wages and benefits would that have covered for Boeing's employees?

That's Boeing's fault for not putting the proper QA/QC in place at the factories that produce the outsourced parts. Boeing ends up eating their own screwup, in reality.

 

[tom sweeney]

i wouldn't be too quick to lay ALL the blame on the unions,"it takes two to Tango"... i 've been in a union for over 35 yrs. ,and where i work,the non-union pressman have MUCH better benefits and HIGHER wages... . so go figure... . it's a mess for sure,and the unions MUST capitulate to keep their company solvent... . trust me... . when push come to shove,they WILL make concessions to keep their jobs!!! i work for a MAJOR newspaper,and we're having hard times as well... . i'm in a small craft union that is slowly but surely losing ground to new technology... we are well aware that our jobs are numbered... union or not... if they can find software to do your job in an ACCEPTABLE manner,they will use it to do away with our jobs,its getting closer everyday... but,thats business. i hope i can get just a FEW more years to make retirement! I would hate to be unemployed at 60 y. o. when both my union and company retiement plans start at 65 (with no penalties)... so i go to work everyday,do my best,and hope i can make it to 65!

... . sorry to rant,but a GREAT many people are mis-informed about SOME of the union benefits (not all for sure) and sadly,i blame it mainly on the Media... which is exactly whom i'm employed by..... ANYTHING. . to sell papers!!! remember there ARE ALWAYS two

sides to every story,the papers don't report EVERYTHING... . just my opinion,having worked in the industry for over 25yrs... . "keep the faith baby"... tom sweeney journeyman photoengraver,now known as "digital photoimager"... . best wishes to ALL for the Holidays

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

WELL, Tom - not to hijack - but newspaper conditions on the left coast must be LOTS different than over here on the RIGHT coast!



For absolute certain, the non-union newspaper workers here make LOTS less than their union "brothers" - I retired from a medium sized daily paper as Production Manager in '96 - thru the years, I had worked a stereotyper, pressman, platemaker, cameraman - eventually became press foreman, and later, Production Manager in full charge of all typesetting, camera/platemaking, pre-press and pressroom - with some overlap into the mailroom.



At NO time in those years, did anyone in our plant - 40 miles from the S. F. Bay area - even come close to union pay or benefits - my own management position paid roughly the same as a journeyman union pressman. Oh, and yes, I had LOTS of contact with other state newspaper managers and workers thru the California Newspaper Association - so was very familiar with the industry throughout the state.



The printers union (like most other unions!) has traditionally fought ANY attempts at transition to modern technology - ever hear of "remake" - where advertisements submitted by advertisers in mat form - a rapid and efficient method of ad production - were REQUIRED by the union to be totally remade in the older less efficient piece-by-piece method - then proofed for accuracy - then DUMPED into the recycle bin - ALL to "protect" the union workers against their jobs being obsolete - and artificially, radically driving up the newspaper's cost of operation?



Like the automotive industry discussed here in this thread, the newspaper industry has faced union opposition to virtually EVERY attempt to streamline their operations for more efficient and profitable return of investment - all in the name of "protecting" their members. Wonder how "protected" the newspaper workers will feel when, like our domestic automakers, the doors close, and their inflated paying jobs disappear because they can't compete with the more efficient non-union ones?

 

[tom sweeney]

Hello Gary!

I understand completely,when i started with the paper,the printers compositors)had LIFETIME job guarantees... . how they got that over Kate Graham is another story... . however it took a few years,but they eventually bought out ALL of them... i was there when they showed up for work,only to have none..... and spent the night playing cards..... an embarassment to all no doubt... . i started as a platemaker in Engraving,and moved to Camera,drum scanner etc. i've found myself trying to keep up with the technology as best as i can,but in a few years it'll overtake even the imaging aspect... . why pay people when you can have software do the "same job"... . i'll be the first to admit that some unions fleeced companies as well as their own members... . they'll learn you can "only go to the well so many times before it runs dry"... . here's hoping we all survive the crises yet to come!!! Merry Christmas and Happy New Year toall at TDR!!! tom

 

[ChrisOlson]

i wouldn't be too quick to lay ALL the blame on the unions,"it takes two to Tango"... i 've been in a union for over 35 yrs. ,and where i work,the non-union pressman have MUCH better benefits and HIGHER wages... . so go figure... .

This is a ploy by Management. when there are more non union workers to replace the union workers management will do so. then they will cut the wages of the non union workers and say tough. old management ploy. I have been in that situation before the only saving grace was when the Non union workers screwed it up after the higher skilled workers were told to leave. it is a real treat when production is stopped and the company begs the union to come back. it does not happen all the time but when it does it is sweet.



have a great day and have a happy holidays.



chris

 

[Tractorat]

That's Boeing's fault for not putting the proper QA/QC in place at the factories that produce the outsourced parts. Boeing ends up eating their own screwup, in reality.

Regarding Boeing. Yes, they made some missteps when they started outsourcing. They wont make the same misstakes next time. There will be a learning curve. But, they have made the decision not to be held captive by the threat of strike again. They will be gone from Seattle completely within 20 years at the very most. Probably a lot sooner than that.



Boeing has to remain competitive. If they dont sell airplanes, there wont be any union mfg jobs. If they can build somewhere else and remain competitive, they will. They used to be loyal to Seattle. They have been a magnificent benefator here in terms of jobs as well as good deeds. However, between the State of Washington and the machinist union, they have washed ther hands of this area.

 

[BILLUA]

Regarding Boeing. Yes, they made some missteps when they started outsourcing. They wont make the same misstakes next time. There will be a learning curve. But, they have made the decision not to be held captive by the threat of strike again. They will be gone from Seattle completely within 20 years at the very most. Probably a lot sooner than that.



Boeing has to remain competitive. If they dont sell airplanes, there wont be any union mfg jobs. If they can build somewhere else and remain competitive, they will. They used to be loyal to Seattle. They have been a magnificent benefator here in terms of jobs as well as good deeds. However, between the State of Washington and the machinist union, they have washed ther hands of this area.

Tracotor rat, that will be a sad day... I have many thousands of hours flying the fine machines that were produced by the folks in Washington. From the 727 to the 757/767 and 747, never once did they fail to deliver I, or 10's of thousands of passengers that I have flown safely to their destination because of a failure related to the aircraft's construction. .



Bill Boeing is rolling over in his grave...



Cheers,



Bill

 

[Tractorat]

Bill,

That will indeed be a sad day. I am a 4th generation Seattleite. The people of this area have always taken great pride in knowing that the Boeing airplanes were built here. The company has been a greater asset than Microsoft to Seattle. But the attitude of the super liberal politicians in this state coupled with a machinist union that "wants to get ours" is "milk them dry".

 

[Missouri Mule]

I had a customer tell me that his sister works for GM in Michigan. She checks every third vehicle that comes off the line to make sure everything works and she gets $72. 00 an hour to do this. Come on its got to be a $ 25 an hour job.