Good oil analysis results w/Amsoil 5W30, but. . .

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

. . . I'm not going to run 5W30 again.



After 19,500 miles on the oil, just under 60k on truck the preliminary results are:



Iron 88

Aluminum 12



Soot <0. 5%

Vis and other contaminants look good



(I don't have the results in front of me, I called for this info and they are faxing the form later on today)



This was analyzed with Oil Analyzers. This covered from last summer with some running in near 110F through last winter until now. I ran 3 Stratapore filters (no bypass) and had DD2s in for the entire time and about 6k miles with the van Aaken box.



To compare the last analysis was:



20,000 on Amsoil 15W40, 40k on truck



Iron only 41

Aluminum 8

All other items such as soot, water, TBN, viscosity, etc. were excellent.



This change included summer and winter operation so was pretty comparable to the last change. I towed more with the Amsoil 15W40 though, 3000 miles vs 150 miles on the 5W30.



The results on the 5W30 certainly aren't bad but I liked the numbers of the 15W40 much better and so I don't plan to use it again. Even if the price of the oil was half what it is.



Vaughn

 

[Sixspeed]

Vaughn, did you go that many miles between oil analyzes?



Les

 

[Don M]

Vaughn,



Do you know what the viscosity was at 100 degree celcius on both oils? Im curious to see the difference with the 5/30 and the 15/40 oils after 20K.



What were the rest of the metals in the report?

Only one report is hard to get excited about and the trend is not really developed yet. Let us know what happens on the next report.





Don~

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

I do an analysis every 10k and changes every 20, filters about every 7k.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Don, well those guys didn't fax me my report like they said so I'll make sure they fax it tomorrow. I'm curious about comparing the the 100C vis too.



Vaughn

 

[Don M]

Cool, let me know



Don~

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Don, I can give the 10,000 mile sus@100C sampling for both the 15W40 and 5W30:



15W40 = 13. 1

5W30 = 10. 7



Iron Count @ 10K:

15W40 = 28

5W30 = 36



Iron count for 2nd half of 20k (subtracting 10K sample numbers from 20K sample):



15W40 = 13

5W30 = 52



There are a lot of variables that affect the numbers obviously, but it is interesting the iron count between the 10k and the 20k sample on the 15W40 did not increase much, whereas on the 5W30 it increased quite a bit. Not sure what to make of that. Like you were saying it takes more samples to establish a trend and 1 oil change isn't going to give you a lot to go on but I think there is enough here to tell you the 15W40 is a better choice to go with.



What I find interesting too is I ran some cheap Super Tech oil from Wal-Mart for my 3rd oil change which I added at 4600 miles and dumped around 12,500 (almost 8000 miles). The iron count on this was only 38, which extrapolates out to be only a little worse numbers-wise in Iron count than the Amsoil 5W30. The Vis @ 100c was 13. 1, Oxidation = 11. 1% and Nitration = 4. 3% on the Super Tech.



Vaughn

 

[Don M]

Vaughn,



After seeing a ton of oil reports the last few months from Cummins engines the trend seems to be the thicker oils provide the protection needed to keep the wear rates down lower.

Film thickness is super important and takes a back seat to fuel economy in my truck.

The lower viscosity oils rely on additives for boundary lubrication more than the higher ones do. Its tougher to squeeze out the thicker oils and cause the adhesion wear you are seeing with the lower visc stuff.

I do what you do and use the thicker oil, except I get nervous and dump it about every 3k. (-:

Good reports Vaughn.



Don~

 

[DEZLPWR]

Vaughn,

What was your silicon ppm?

 

[Sled Puller]

Vaughn,



A lot of things can happen in 20,000 miles to make the particle count raise a little bit, but I seriously doubt it was the oil failing or not protecting you.

I know, you paid more for the 5W-30 so you want to see nonexixtent numbers, I don't blame you!

I sell the 15w-40 to most guys, for cost vs benefit anyway.



And, if you are not going to run a By-Pass, I really like to see the Amsoil SDF filter in use for extended drains, you should be changing the Stratapore at shorter intervals at the very least.



I believe I will run the 15-40 after I get it broke in to see where my soot levels are going to be. Can't afford the 5W-30 if I have to run short drains.



This is a good link to look at how the 5W-30 held up in a fleet:

http://www.amsoil.com/performancetests/jeff_foster_trucking.htm



The Wal Mart oil is made by a good company, I would assume, and SHOULD have good wear protection at short drains. It may not look so good after you get some extreme use on it.



That is where the top end oils shine, in harsh conditions.



Your samples still say your engine will out last your truck!

Gene

 

[JJW_ND]

Here is My last 5W30 Analysis!

I have ran Four 24-25K intervals on the 5W30, two intervals on the 15W40 and many 6K drains on PB2K. This is in a 96 5sp with 210K on it. Lots of hard pulling especially in the the first 180K miles. Lots of arctic cold starts and operation.



I change filter (Stratapore) ever 6K, sample and dump at 24K or so.



Here are the final ending numbers from the four 5w30 intevals:



Fe: 120,67,57, 47

AL: 9,5,5,4

Visc100C: 10. 53,10. 83,10. 48,10. 57

Soot: . 1%,. 1%,. 2%,. 1%

TBNs: --,9. 5,9. 7,10. 0



Highest readings (wear metals, soot) sometimes occurred at 18K on the oil and then came down in the last sample.



Here are the final ending numbers for the two 15W40 intervals:



Fe: 97, 59

AL: 4,5

Visc100C: 12. 49, 12. 59

Soot: . 1%, . 1%

TBNs: 8. 5, 8. 6





I just switched to Mobil Delvac 5W40 to see how it does.



If anyone is interested in a table showing all the information PM me with email address and I will send you one.



jjw

ND

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Originally posted by Sled Puller





Your samples still say your engine will out last your truck!

Gene

You are probably right Gene . The way I figure it, when my truck hits about 999,000 miles and falls apart around my engine, I'll still have a good engine to stick in my Yacht which I should be about able to afford by then LOL



JJW_ND what would you attribute to your continually improving count numbers from change to change? It is interesting how it drops like that. Maybe on the first change to another type of oil there is some mixing of the previous oil which diminishes the performance of the new oil a little



Vaughn

 

[D White]

Not to get off the subject, but who bottles up the Super Tech oil. I've heard of a few different people getting good results with it.



Thanks,

Doug

 

[The patriot]

Originally posted by Sled Puller





The Wal Mart oil is made by a good company,

It's Quaker state.

Eric

 

[D White]

Thanks Eric, guess I don't need any of that stuff. I'll stick with Delvac 1300.



Doug

 

[JJW_ND]

I don't know Vaughn, I would betting less then 50% if I was predicting my analysis results. I do think their is carryover. For the first time, I dumped the oil in my garage instead of the shop with a hoist to let it set overnight and drain. I had Cu flagged at 72ppm this last sample. Interested in what it does with new oil.



The second last sample, was the coldest, no hard pulles (these seem to be good for oil) and slow miles. End pretty good with low iron. 5W30 is probably the best under these conditions.



This last interval had soot to . 4% at 19K. Highest I have ever had. Might have something to do with a new fuel plate and a dyno report showing 345hp. Soot dropped back to the normal . 1%. I know even 1 makeup quart can really soften the numbers (DILUTION).



My oil was also very thin and BLACK, BLACK, BLACK but obviously still doing its job.



My experience also reflects how clean burning these engines really are. I have had some intense pulling miles (WOT for over 500 miles at a stretch running boost over 20, pyro over 1100 the entire time and MPG less then 6 MPG!) and oil was just fine at 6K, same oil fine at 12, and 18 and 24K.



jjw

ND

 

[Sled Puller]

Originally posted by The patriot

The Wal Mart oil is made by a good company,





It's Quaker state.

Eric

You miss quoted me!!! I said ASSUME after that part!!!





I ASSUMED WRONGLY.



Born and raised in Pennsylvania, long before I knew what a synthetic was, we avoided Quaker State like the plague.

I have seen no reason to change my thinking!



gene

 

[Forrest]

JJW-ND,



Pls post on your Delvac findings. I've been using it for 60k miles. Expensive stuff

 

[JJW_ND]

Delvac cost less the the 5W30 but more then the 15W40.



Will be coming up on the first sample interval pretty soon.



jjw

 

[HC]

Very interesting data! But it's so hard to reach "final" conclusions, because we modify our engines, fueling, filters, and driving between samples. jjw, you're showing slightly better results with 15W-40. Which sample runs included the most recent HP mods- the 5W-30 or the 15W-40? Or worded another way, which oil do you think you worked harder? (If it was the 5W-30, then I'd say these results are so close that the difference is negligible. If you worked the 15W-40 harder and it still came out ahead, then I'll be using 15W-40 in the summer and 5W-30 only for make-up in the coldest months. ) (Vaughn, same questions for you!)



Again, very good information guys.