Great winter front

[Archive]

Since winter is upon us (we have our first snow that stuck on the ground now) I thought I'd post this for everyone. I asked about winter fronts a month or so ago and was told about Mary Ann Gettmann's winter front. It's advertised in the classifieds right now under potential business. I've been using mine for a few weeks now and it works great. It's a nylon like material and slips down between the radiator and intercooler. It has brass reinforced holes at the top and zip ties to the top of the radiator through existing holes. If it warms up for a day you just pull it up, roll it and tie it up with ties that are built right in. It cuts the warm up time by about half in 25 degree weather and I've had it in there up to 50 degrees with no problems. Without it the truck was running about 25 degrees cooler than usual in the cold and now it's right up to normal operating temp. Great product that doesn't mess up the front of your truck or change the look at all and only costs $35!

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-Steve St. Laurent
'98 Quad Cab Long Bed (CMNSPWR), 4x4, ISB, 5sp, 4. 10 LSD, Prime-loc remote fuel filter,
boost & pyro gauges, Permatech spray in liner, Grizzly stainless nerf bars,
front Draw-Tite receiver, BFG 285/75R16 AT KO's
http://my. voyager.net/stevest




[This message has been edited by Steve St. Laurent (edited 08-30-2000). ]

 

[Archive]

I found a real cheap solution for a winter front. At both WallMart and Home Depot they sell a thick, black, high density foam rubber Welcome mat for the front door of your home. It just happens to slide right down in between the radiator and the intercooler and covers one half of the width. It is about four inches too tall so you have to trim some off. I use one on the turbo side of the radiator down to about 10 degrees F. When it gets colder I use another one cut in half lenthwise on the passenger side leaving the center open. I checked with Cummins and the amount left open in the center is adequate. The best part is that they only cost $3. 95 and when not using it you can just throw it behind the seat.

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96 2500 4X4 5sp 4:10 215hp SLT Horton fan,TST,4"exhaust,GearVendors,BFG 285/75/16 on Mickey Thompson Challenger wheels, K&N, Detroit Locker,50#Boost and Pyro guages, Aluminim flatbed, gooseneck and bp hitches,Helwig air bags with compressor, Helwig sway bar, Rancho 2" front lift w/9000 shocks all around, Preluber w/aircraft hoses,Hytec rear cover,PacBrake,McCloud dual disc clutch,numerous other accessories. Pull 11,000lb aluminum gooseneck horse trlr. and 14,000lb equipment trlr.

 

[Archive]

why do you need the hole in the middle? won't your gauges tell you if you are running too warm?

I guess a horton would answer the question. Doesn't the switch light up when the fan comes on? Anyone with a horton want to experiment?
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tedstruck 2500qc, no leather or abs
teds bigfoot 1500 bigfoot, no auto waterheater or microwave.
Reader's Rigs p. 5






[This message has been edited by ted kidd (edited 12-22-1999). ]

 

[Archive]

What if you forget to watch the guage? And if the guage shows hot, then you have to remove the winter front. With a clear space in the center, it all happens automatically. Cummins says to keep 75 to 90 sq. in. open, so that is what I did.

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96 2500 4X4 5sp 4:10 215hp SLT Horton fan,TST,4"exhaust,GearVendors,BFG 285/75/16 on Mickey Thompson Challenger wheels, K&N, Detroit Locker,50#Boost and Pyro guages, Aluminim flatbed, gooseneck and bp hitches,Helwig air bags with compressor, Helwig sway bar, Rancho 2" front lift w/9000 shocks all around, Preluber w/aircraft hoses,Hytec rear cover,PacBrake,McCloud dual disc clutch,numerous other accessories. Pull 11,000lb aluminum gooseneck horse trlr. and 14,000lb equipment trlr.

 

[Archive]

The openning requirement with winter fronts on our trucks has to do with the intercooler (turbo). It has nothing to do with the radiator as with temps much below 40 degrees (running empty) the thermostat never opens.

If you block the intercooler and are pulling hard you can raise you EGTs to unsafe levels. Incoming compressed air is HOT!.

If always running empty and running a stock pump, I doudt one would ever run into problems with the entire front blocked.

jjw
ND

 

[Archive]

Perhaps this is another reason for the Psychotty Air... I'll test out this theory over Christmas... Block the air in the front, and try the factory box and then the Psychotty Air to see if it helps lower the egt's like it has on hills.

SCOTT
not really looking forward to jumping in and out of a toasty warm cab to do this a few times... but I will... for BOMBing!
HO #ad
HO #ad
HO #ad


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TO THE BOMB BAY



[This message has been edited by scott1 (edited 12-21-1999). ]

 

[Archive]

The reason I was told for the hole in any rad cover is 2 fold. Firstly to keep the fan from being sucked into the radiator when the clutch kicks in. Secondly to keep your engine from turning into a snow block on the highway, the flow through keeps the snow from building up. $0. 02 worth.

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Jason Hoffman
(Lil' Mack)-89 D250 2WD 5Spd 3. 55 Reg Cab. K&N, 3. 5" Exst straight,E&M Custom seats. Bosch H4 80/100 Plasma-white HdLites. Bosch 100W Driving. Bosch 55W Fogs
210,000 miles

 

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When I was a mechanic on the over the highway rigs, I was told that if you did not leave a hole in the winter front that you would lose the bearing on the fan.

---------------------------------------------dodge cummins owner gonnabe

 

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There are way to many trucks (big, small, diesel and gas)up here ND that have completely covered fronts for several months a year.

You don't want to know the wind chill at -30 when one is driving 70mph into a 30mph headwind!

BTW, had -50 windchills yesterday AM.

jjw
ND

 

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I side with casey as well. My understanding is if there isn't any airflow then the fan clutch will always be engaged (or is it disengaged?) because of the heat behind the radiator with no airflow. Therefore your fan would run all the time at full lockup. There's something in the owners manual about it too but I don't have it with me now.

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-Steve St. Laurent
'98 Quad Cab Long Bed (CMNSPWR), 4x4, ISB, 5sp, 4. 10 LSD, Prime-loc remote fuel filter,
boost & pyro gauges, Permatech spray in liner, Grizzly stainless nerf bars,
front Draw-Tite receiver, BFG 285/75R16 AT KO's
http://my. voyager.net/stevest




[This message has been edited by Steve St. Laurent (edited 08-30-2000). ]

 

[Archive]

If you ever get a chance to run in temps below zero, take the time to feel you radiator or hoses. They will be cool or cold. T-stat is closed keeping all the warmstuff in the engine. Which sometimes is barely enough!

Oil temps will be around 170 or cooler once you have driven at least 20 miles at highway speeds.

I don't think temps will be warm enough to engauge the clutch fan.

Diesels only makes heat when you work them. Cruising at 60 -70 is not work.

jjw
ND

 

[Archive]

Steve
Is there a hole in the Winter front you bought? I'm thinking about buying one,I went to the potential business section but it didn't say much about it.

Thanks

Don

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"The Shadow" 1999 Dodge Ram SLT 2500 QC 5spd 3. 55lsd, Short Bed, Sport, Black, Camel/Tan Interior, Trailer tow package, Camper package, Infinity sound. Towing a 27ft Dutchman 5th wheel w/slide

Elba Twp, Michigan

 

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Back in the winter of 91' I was in Broadview Saskatchewan delivering a car. The windchill hit an all time record of -101F.

Then when I got back to the house it got balmy and the windchill shot up to -87F... for 3 days!

SCOTT
Frozen BOMBs

 

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The day I drove my truck home I placed a full coverage nylon window screen over the radiator. I have another commercial nylon bug screen that I am going to place over the first one during the coldest part of the winter. If the truck does not warm up I'm thinking of hanging a third screen over the first two and not place anything in front of the intercooler. What do you think experts?

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99 QC Diesel,5spd, white,Luverne SS step bars, Mopar long mud flaps, A. R. E. cap with walk thru door, SS rock side panels, JC Whitney front bumper 14" guards, BED RUG box liner, diamond plate bed rail and bulk head covers.

 

[Archive]

Yes Don, it has a hole approximately 6"x9" or so (just going by memory). Works great.

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-Steve St. Laurent
'98 Quad Cab Long Bed (CMNSPWR), 4x4, ISB, 5sp, 4. 10 LSD, Prime-loc remote fuel filter,
boost & pyro gauges, Permatech spray in liner, Grizzly stainless nerf bars,
front Draw-Tite receiver, BFG 285/75R16 AT KO's
http://my. voyager.net/stevest




[This message has been edited by Steve St. Laurent (edited 08-30-2000). ]

 

[Archive]

I just recieved as a gift the LUND Winterfront. It consist of 4 black tinted plexiglas pieces that are cut to fit and snap in the grill openings. You can cover the entire front or take some out if needed.
Nice setup. . They go on /off with a snap.

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98. 5 ISB QC LB 4x4 Driftwood Leather 3. 54LS 5sp Ordered new w/all options except front abs
Upgrades: K&N,Polished Stainless rocker panels Kenwood 10 disc CD Mopar
Aluminum "nurf bar" runnin boards. RS9000's

 

[Archive]

Doc:

On my 96 12V I leave my Gettmann winter front in until I either pull a load of trailers or the temp goes over 70 That is 70. If I ran empty all the time I could have left it in from September till June. Have had it in since early October. I have a oil temp gauge and summer temps in over 80 produce higher oil temps with winter front and air temps in the 60s.

BTW, I have seen my best MPG when driving with the winter front on and temps in the 30's - 40s. Cool temps but a warm engine.

W/o the winter front my truck runs 160 - 170 until temps go over 85. I have the revised Tstat in my truck.

This setup (Gettman Winter front) is not the prefect solution for my driving. Need more adjustablilty. Several times I have left Bismarck at -25 and -70 windchill and pull into balmy KS at 50 above in 11 hours running empty turn around and drive back to the deep freeze. Current winter front is not enough for the extreme cold running empty, just right from zero - 50 above empty. Then with no front and a hard pull in 50 - 20 degrees things are just right, and the last leg in zero to -20 the winter front is just a little too much blockage, but with nothing things run to cool.

We have some 99 TD here at work and they seem to run warmer (according to the temp gauge) then my 96. I never had the clutch fan kick in for the first two years of pulling and while it is pretty easy to get the new trucks to go over 190 and kick in the clutch fan.

My truck seems to give the best mileage and performace if it runs around 180 degrees on the coolant gauge and 200 degrees oil temps. With out a winter front or temps in the 90s I do not see those temps.


jjw
ND

 

[Archive]

About the hole. . My $. 02
The need to have a hole in your winter front comes to us from the big rigs. If required, you keep the whole thing covered. If you experience overheating, then you open it up as much as needed to maintain proper operating temp. When truckers started using fancy adjustable winter fronts, they had a tendency to open them at the top or bottom. This practice would put stress on one section of the fan,(and remember, We're talking about a large diameter fan)Many fan failures came as a result. After a while, winterfront manufacturers started putting a hole or adjustable opening in the center, thus reducing the leverage type pull on the fan from top or bottom.
Personally I don't think the fan diameter on a pickup is large enough to worry about where the hole is. Any time you use a winter front, you put more stress on the fan. Some manufacturers put the hole in the center to keep them from being blamed for fan failures and damage due to overheating.

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'93 W250, CC, 4x4 LE Cummins W/mild mods, K&N, 5spd, 4:10, custom exhaust, 5th wheel, gooseneck, H. D. rear hitch, Lund visor w/lights, aluminum everything, Cobra 148GTL C. B.

 

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well, my solution probably doesn't block air flow much, but it does block the wind. I tied 1/4" reflective insulation to the rear of the grille.

If the fan comes on I think air will flow across all coolers fine, but stops the wind.

Also keeps heat IN when truck is sitting. (try putting hand next to grille when engine is hot, heat FLOWS out of there) Worked great all last winter - keeps salt out of engine compartment too.

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tedstruck 2500qc, no leather or abs
teds bigfoot 1500 bigfoot, no auto waterheater or microwave.
Reader's Rigs p. 5
Home Page

 

[Archive]

Intersting reading about this topic.
having been a diesel mech,(big truck's) starting pro tour in jan 69,one of the first hands on of electronic controled eng's (cummins/trw)then on to cat-detroit & cummins (northern ind. )finished up last last 6 yrs dual role maint. dir & parts mng. that said been around the block.
first off the warmer you keep the eng,(195 -200 deg oil leak,s subside,mpg's go up. but
with the comming of turbo's (compressing air makes heat,)the addition of after-coolers,inter coolers,air-to-air exchangers & oil coolers they streached eng life and mpg.
also with every 1 deg. of out side temp. rise
with compressed air you raise the compression temp by 10 deg.
that is why the air to air exchanger was added to try to keep a steady controled temp in warm and cold weather. which extended eng life to over haul.
what used to drive us up a wall and i still shake my head when i see it is a truck running down the road with a winter front on and it is above 20 deg. it should not be on if you can't get heat something is not being maintained ie. coolant full,thermostat,pluged heater core,or no cab insulation(my first truck driving job-1949 gmc cab over gas eng)that was in 1963. )brrrrrrrrr!
WITH THE COMMING OF THE AIR TO AIR ENCHANGERS DRIVERE WERE COOKING THE ENGINES (SCORING THE LINERES "MELTING PISTONS") THATS WHEN WINTER FRONT MFG. STARTED (BY PRODING FROM TRUCK AND ENG MFG. ) STARTED PUTTING THE HOLE IN THE WINTER FRONTS. SOME DRIVERS YOU COULD TELL THEM AND TELL THEM BUT SOME WOULD NOT TAKE THEM OFF ABOVE 20-LET ALOND OPEN THE UP AT LEAST WHEN GOING FROM -20 TO + 20 LET ALONE 60 /70 DEG . DONT BELIVE IT WATCH THE NEXT TRIP OUT OF THE HOUSE.
WEAR ON THE FAN BEARINGS WAS NEVER A PROBLEM.
FAN BLADES BREAKING ,YES IN THE EARLY DAYS OF THE COMPOSITE FLEX BLADES,BUT THEY ALSO BROKE YEAR AROUND AND THRER WAS A LEARNING CURVE,AND SOME MFG. NEVER GOT THEM TO WORK AT ALL.
WILL THE ONE'S ON OUR DODGES BREAK WITH OR WITH THE WINTER FRONT??
YES.
WATCH FOR A SMALL CRACK JUST A ABOVE WHERE THE PADDLE IS RIVETED TO THE CENTER HUB. WILL BE WELL OUT OF WARRANTY WHEN THE BREAK,BUT I KNOW OF MANY THAT HAVE TAKING OUT THE RADIATOR AND 2 THAT GOT THE INTER COOLER ALSO. $$$
ANOTHER NOTE . WE USE TO RUN WIER-STAT THERMOSTAT'S IN THE BIG TRUCKS AND HAVE NOT SPENT THE TIME TO SEE IF THEY MAKE ONE FOR THE 5. 9. THE VENDER IN SO. BEND HAS BEN BOUGHT OUT AND LEFT ,THERE IS A LOCATION IN INDY,BUT KEEPING TO STOP IN.
THEY ARE DIFFERNT THAN OTHER'S IF YOU INSTALL SAY 195 DEG. IT ONLY OPENS JUST ENOUGH TO MAINTANE THAT TEMP. IT WILL ONLY OPEN FULLY IF IT FAILS OR IF IT HAS TO TO STAY AT THE TEMP SETTING. AS I SAID TO MY SELF LAST WINTER I GOING TO CHECK IT OUT THIS WINTER.
IF YOU ARE GOING TO CLOSE OFF THE AIR YOU BEST INSTALL A PYRO IN THE INTAKE SYS.
ALSO IF YOUR ARE LIKE ME-GOING TO GET EVERY MILE OUT OF MY PRIDE AND JOY MAKE YOUR HOLE ROUND----AND DON'T PUT ON TILL BELOW 10.
IF---YOU ONLY DRIVE TO AND FROM WORK THAT IS A DIFFERENT STORY. 690K AND ROLLING.

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96-3500 SLT EXT. CAB AM/FM/CD-RINO LINER. D-CELERATOR EXH. BRK-RED LINE VAC. OVER HYD BRK CONTROL- AIR BAGS W/HVY DUTY AIR COMP. PUTCO S/STEEL DEEPBOARDS FRONT TO REAR. REESE 20K 5TH WHEEL & GOOSE -REESE 20K HITCH BELOW W/17K RECEVER. CLEAR COATED & SOUND DEADINGING &UNDER COATED 5 SPD/W 4:10 MCHLN'S 235/16'S UNIDEN PC76/WEATHER-WILSON 1000 MAG MOUNT ANT. 4 WHL ANTI LOC BRK SYS.