Here I am

Grrrrr - bad load of fuel

Attention: TDR Forum Junkies
To the point: Click this link and check out the Front Page News story(ies) where we are tracking the introduction of the 2025 Ram HD trucks.

Thanks, TDR Staff

Looking for a good Diesel Shop in VA

Nevada 6.0 P.S.D report #4

Out here in LV a station had gas mixed with diesel and a couple engines blew the head gaskets, etc. The station had to pay.

I imagine your state has an inspection dept. like weights&measures. They check all scales and pumps for accuracy and also test fuel. Complain to them, give them a fuel sample, etc. They will give the station more grief than you can imagine, plus fines etc.
 
Lukocs - I ALWAYS save my receipts, I have every receipt sitting in my wallet dealing with this situation from the fuel station in question on.

Joe - thanks for the advice on the weights and measures department, I hadn't thought of that and will call them tomorrow!

I posted my story on the Ford and Chevy sites tonight now that I know what the problem was and have solved it. If you guys want a real yuck (warning though, it might **** you off) check out the response I got on the Chevy site - http://www.62-65-dieselpage.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/000084.html . Jeez - I THOUGHT I was doing them a favor - but obviously any Dodge/Cummins guy is an enemy there!

-Steve


[This message has been edited by Steve St. Laurent (edited 05-09-2001). ]
 
I used to work in a gas station. In the winter the diesel would pump real slow from the waxing in the pump filters. So, we used to take them out, NO filter at all in that big cannister. So, just becuase you see a filter, dont assume there is anything in it.
 
Well there was only one bad apple over on the Chevy site, the rest of the guys have been very thankful for the information. I talked with the supplier this morning and he was irate and basically told me to go jump in a lake that they weren't going to do anything. Got a call back from the PD, I can't block their drive in any way but can picket out front. They also gave me a phone number to contact the attorney general's office which I did and they sent me to the agriculture department where I lodged a complaint against the station (through an automated system). They are supposed to look into it and contact me back. The saga continues . . . .

-Steve
 
Steve, you might not be able to park permanently in the way of the pumps and not purchase anything, but who says you can't have one guy park, casually walk in and buy a $. 05 piece of gum, and mosey back out to his truck, only to have the next guy in line do the same, again and again, or something similar? I don't know if that's a good compromise to not breaking the law but still basically blocking the pumps, but it's just a thought. I hope all gets resolved before this happens though.
 
Here it is:
#ad


Later,
Joe

------------------
Joe Hinson, 93 D-350
3in straight pipe, pump turned up 20%, ISSPRO pyro - For now

[This message has been edited by Crash_AF (edited 05-09-2001). ]
 
Thanks for the heads up Steve. Hope you're able to resolve this quickly.
I thought of another reason for keeping a receipt for fuel purchases. I was tailed and later puller over by a TX trooper, after I left a fuel station. I was "breaking in" the engine (second day of ownership, May 1995) and was well within the speed limit. He had no reason to pull me over, but the girl at the station said I didn't pay! I showed him the receipt and he apologized. The receipt created a quick resolution.
If the automatic printer at the pump is malfunctioning, I go inside and get a duplicate.
 
I am new to the whole diesel ownership thing, so thank you for all the info. Has anyone in the Colorado Springs area had any fuel problems? If so, what brand was it and what was the store's location? (not that I am paranoid or anything). I have been solely using Diamond Shamrock. Thank you for any info.

------------------
1993 silver and black D250 club cab,le, long bed, 2wd, automatic,3. 54 anti-spin, 95000 miles, stock truck except for the K&N air filter, and US Gear Gauges (tach, pyro, trans temp, turbo boost)
 
For the benefit of Scott and other new owners:
It's always a good idea to buy fuel at a gas station that moves some volume, like close to an interstate. A truck stop is even better (Our trucks will handle the larger high-volume nozzles). The idea is to buy where the fuel gets replenished quite often, versus some little out-of-the-way place that doesn't sell much fuel, and the fuel sits there and accumulates water and algae.
Also, many say it's a good idea not to buy fuel right after the tanker truck has made his delivery, so that you're not buying fuel when the sediment at the bottom of the tank is all stirred up. They've got a point, but how will you know whether or not the tanker just drove away? Personally, I've never worried about whether or not the tanker truck just made his delivery.
Andy
 
Originally posted by Scott Elliott:
I have been solely using Diamond Shamrock. Thank you for any info.

Hi Scott,
I've been using whoever's the cheapest and haven't found any bad fuel yet. I try to fill up at the Total Truck Stop at Baptist Rd and I-25 because they're usually cheaper than most but most all of them are pretty well kept stations.

Haven't seen your rig around town yet, what part of town do you live in? I'm on the east side by Peterson. My 93 is a white flatbed dually with blue graphics on the doors and peeling paint #ad


Later,
Joe

------------------
Joe Hinson, 93 D-350
3in straight pipe, pump turned up 20%, ISSPRO pyro - For now
 
Steve -

Here's a thought, playing devil's advocate for a second here. Numerous people have mentioned not buying fuel right after the tanker offloads since the tank could be stirred up. Is it possible that that might have happened in your tank? Could you have got a bad tank previously and had algae growing in your tank for a little while and then mixed up with that fill, causing your filter to immediately plug? Just a thought, but one you need to be prepared to answer. If I was the "other side", I'd be asking that question... .
 
It's possible, but I doubt it Joel, the previous 4 tank fill ups were on my trip to Tennessee and I had the 35' TT behind me so I could only stop at major truck stops. The directly previous tank from this one was on that trip, towards the end of it. I put 200 miles on the truck over the next week and the problem happened within 2 miles of that station, then when I changed the filter after that day (180 miles later and changed it the next night after the truck had been sitting for over 10 hours) it happened again within a mile. That tells me that it wasn't just stirred up but was suspended in the fuel. Good thinking though - guess it's still a slight possibility, I'll know when I get my analysis back! BTW, almost a full load of fuel through the truck now with no repeat! Talked with the fuel supplier again on tuesday (he finally called me back after I called the manager at the station again) and he was extremely irate, said "no way in ... . in ... . you are getting anything out of us" - WRONG answer buddy and I told him so. Once I get the analysis back or hear from the the AG dept it will be onto the next phase - anyone who wants to join in (totally legal, parade around the block with me sitting in front of the station with a sign and a bunch of cans of "free" fuel) let me know!

-Steve


[This message has been edited by Steve St. Laurent (edited 05-12-2001). ]
 
Scott,
I agree with CrashAF. I use the Baptist Rd Total when I can. I was told by a diesel tech in town that they use the Total or Diamond Shamrock fuel, but NOT Texaco. Supposedly, Total and Diamond Shamrock are supplied by the same distributor. I lose 1-2 mpg with Texaco. The Total pump at N. Academy/I-25 is labeled as 50 cetane. I like that, but don't know if it's true.
 
Steve,
Reading your 'event' sure got me thinking of installing fuel gages also. Looked at your truck and could not tell if you have a 12V or 24V. If you have a 24V, where did you tap into the fuel line to install the gage? Since you said you measured a dp, did you have to install two gages or just a single one?
Hope that you can get some money back to compensate for your troubles. Ever since I've had a Diesel, 2. 2L Isuzu in a Chevy Luv and the 24V CTD, been filling up as stations that I know fleet trucks use also. Knock on wood that have not had any problem yet. Carry spare fuel filters though just in case. Reading your fixes this may be supplemented with chemicals also!
 
Thank you Joe and Tim for your info. I live in Falcon and usaully fill up the the Diamond Shamrock at US24 and Meridian or the one at Austin Bluffs and Academy. I know the one on US24 has tons of farmer's trucks and OTR trucks going though there every day. There is usually a line at thier 4 diesel pumps. I come into town everyday on either Woodmen Rd or US24, so I'll keep an eye out for your trucks. Thanks again! #ad


------------------
1993 silver and black D250 club cab,le, long bed, 2wd, automatic,3. 54 anti-spin, 95000 miles, stock truck except for the K&N air filter, and US Gear Gauges (tach, pyro, trans temp, turbo boost)
 
Got a letter today from the Agriculture Department today that "The Motor Fuels Quality Law, P. A. 44 of 1984 does not establish standards for diesel fuel and the department has no jurisdiction over the quality of diesel fuel at this time. " #ad
SCARY!! So I bounced it back over to the Attorney Generals office, filed a complaint with them and then faxed this letter to the fuel supplier - any bets on how long it will take before I get a phone call back?

May 14, 2001


Steve St. Laurent
**************
**************
**************
**************

Walter Dimmick Petroleum
***********
***********

To Whom It May Concern:

I filled my truck with diesel fuel at your Shell station in Charlotte, MI on S. Cochran and got a bad load of fuel. I have had communications with the manager at the station (Debbie) and also with Terry at your company and was told after my last conversation with him (I talked with him twice) that there was no way I was going to get anything out of you. I filed a complaint today with the Attorney Generals office of Consumer Protection regarding this situation and that complaint is attached to the bottom of this letter. If you would like to attempt to resolve this before they get involved I would be receptive, I can be contacted at either the above numbers or through my office at ***-***-****. Thanks for your time.

Sincerely,
Steve St. Laurent

Attachment:

The complaint you submitted has been recorded.

If you need to reference your complaint, or supply additional information and/or documents in support of your complaint by Email, facsimile or postal mail, refer to your complaint with the following Complaint Identification Number: *********

I have a diesel pickup truck that I use for my personal as well as business use. Due to the possibility of getting bad diesel fuel or having a bad fuel transfer pump, I have installed on my truck a fuel pressure gauge that allows me to check the status of the fuel filter in my truck - a clean filter will show a 0 psi pressure drop across the filter, the dirtier the filter is the higher the pressure drop that will be shown. I regularly check this (every time I drive the truck) to be sure that I'm not starving my injection pump for fuel - as it is a very expensive part to replace ($4000+). I filled my diesel truck up with 18. 583 gallons of diesel fuel on May 5th at the Shell station in Charlotte. After leaving the station and getting on I-69 southbound my truck started hesitating going down the road, I checked the fuel pressure gauge and I had a 2 psi restriction across the filter whereas I had none before filling up at that station. I finished my trip that day (180 miles) dealing with the hesitation and stopped back into the station to get the managers name and phone number so I could contact her to discuss the situation. That night I changed my fuel filter (which had 5,000 miles on it, typically changed at 15,000 miles) and had a 0 psi restriction again and the truck started and ran fine, took it out for a test drive within 1 mile it was again hesitating and I again had a 2 psi restriction across the filter. This told me that I had gotten a bad load of fuel from them. My previous fill up had been a week earlier and I had put approximately 300 miles on the truck over that week with no problems. I contacted the station on monday morning and spoke with Debbie, the manager and she put me in contact with Terry of Walter Dimmick Petroleum, he stated that they had no other complaints and wasn't willing to do anything. I contacted a diesel pump shop and they confirmed that it was a bad load of fuel and walked me through the procedure I'd have to take to correct it. This included draining my entire fuel tank (34 gallons worth of diesel fuel that is sitting in my garage in fuel cans) then treating the tank with a biocide (to kill the algae that was in the fuel) along with using a fuel additive to add lubricity to the fuel while running the biocide through the system, then filling the entire tank full, and then change the fuel filter again. Then for the next 3 tank fulls of fuel to run the biocide and the additive and be prepared to change the fuel filter 2 or three additional times because they may clog up with the dead algae. After going through the first step in this procedure (draining the tank, treating and refilling it, and changing the fuel filter) the truck is now running fine and I am continuing with the recommended treatment. I then left a voice mail with Terry at Walter Dimmick Petroleum (who is both the fuel supplier and the owner of the station) to explain that I had verified the problem was there's and that I wanted to be contacted to work out a remedy. Two days later I had not heard back from him so I contacted the station manager again - she understood my frustration and said she would have someone else call me. Terry called me back in approximately two hours very irate over the phone and told me that there was no way I was going to get anything out of them. I told him that I was going to take this to the next level which is when I contacted your office, I was then sent to the Agriculture department as they handle fuel issues. Today I got a letter from the Ag dept stating "You indicated that you experienced a problem with diesel fuel. The Motor Fuels Quality Law, P. A. 44 of 1984 does not establish standards for diesel fuel and the department has no jurisdiction over the quality of diesel fuel at this time. " I then contacted your office again explaining the situation and was told to file this complaint. Here are my costs entailed so far (and assuming 1 more filter change and the required additives to finish the treatment):

$54. 36 - 34 gallons of contaminted diesel fuel at the shell stations price of $1. 599/gal

$100 - 4 fuel filters at $25 ea

$20 - 4 bottles of Stanadyne performance formula additive

$13. 49 - BioKleen (biocide)

$55. 93 - 7 - 5 gallon fuel cans to store contaminated fuel

$420 - 7 hours of my time @ $60/hr (my hourly rate that I charge my clients), a diesel mechanic would cost $65/hr

For a total of $663. 78. The resolution I would like to see is to get reimbursed for my costs of $663. 78 and for them to test their tank and treat it so that other owners do not have to go through the frustration that I have. If they wish they can have the contaminated fuel and fuel cans as I have no use for 34 gallons worth of contaminated diesel fuel. I am the President of a diesel truck club (The Great Lakes Turbo Diesel Registry) in the Great Lakes area with over 100 members and am also a staff writer for a national diesel truck magazine (the Turbo Diesel Registry) with over 18,000 subscribers. Someone with less knowledge and resources than I have at my disposal would have incurred MUCH higher costs in remedying this situation. I am hoping to avoid a protest in front of the station along with many other truck owners to warn people fueling at that station of their business practices - but if a satisfactory resolution is not reached that is what will happen. I will of course coordinate that with the local police department to make sure that everything is done in a legal manner and so they can be prepared for the potential traffic congestion. That is why I attempted to talk with them directly and when they were totally uncooperative brought it to you. If you need copies of the receipts please let me know and I will be happy to provide them. Thank you in advance for any assistance you can give me on this.
 
Back
Top