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Gutless 600????

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So, up to this point, I have been relatively happy with my new 600. Over this past weekend, I made a run from Denver to So. Cal. for a rockcrawling competition. The new truck feels very stable but, it is gutless and eats fuel like no other. I realize that the engine is not fully broke in by any means but, it gets really expensive to buy fuel in So. Cal. at $2. 65/gal.



I left Denver with a full tank and about 8000 lbs behind it. The first hill on Hwy 70 in Golden made me downshift to 5th. My Duramax never used to need to downshift for that hill. At the end of the first tank of fuel running 75 mph, I avg. 10. 5 mpg. Not too bad for such a fresh motor since I only had 1450 miles on it when I left.



I filled up in Fruita, Colorado and ran to Ritchfield, Utah on my second tank, averaging 75 mph. That tank got 9. 5 mpg. Not really understanding why it dropped but, can still live with it as there are plenty of long climbs running across there.



From Ritchfield I filled up and ran to Las Vegas. That tank only got 8. 5 mpg averaging 75 mph. OK, now this is getting silly as my Dmax would get 12-14mpg on that stretch at that speed with that load.



From there I ran into California and ran around the desert so, ignor that last tank for economy concerns. The problem is that I had very little power pulling the hills on the way out but, thought maybe it was just my expectations were too high for power and there was actually plenty of power for what it was supposed to have.



On the way home, I ran 65 mph and was able to get between 11 and 12 mpg most of the way but, Vail pass is where I determined that this thing is gutless. It fell on its face right at the bottom and I had to downshift to 5th. From there I put it on the floor and it stayed there until the top. I only had one of our buggies on the trailer so, like I said, 8000 lbs. max. I crested the pass at 65 mph but, that was all it had, period.



I am sad about this speed at Vail pass and power because over Easter, we pulled two of our buggies on one trailer over vail pass at the same speed with my buddies Dmax. He was pulling with a completely stock '03 dually and had another 4000 lbs behind it than what I just pulled with.



I am not trying to insinuate that the Dmax is some superior engine or anything else, just looking to see if you guys have any ideas? This hurts as the dmax I sold would walk all over this new truck and get much better fuel economy doing it. Is there something wrong with my new truck?



Oh yeah, on the way back, in the middle of Utah, my seat belt light and bell started going off for no reason. I had to unplug the wire at the buckle to get it to shut up as I was belted in. Thanks to what I have read from you guys here, I knew I could do that and get it to stop chiming.



What do you guys think? Is it really that huge of a difference for economy and power between a fresh engine and a broken in one? I now have over 3500 miles on it since the trip is 1000 miles each way.
 
- I would imagine that it is realistic to expect a 1 - 3 mpg increase after break-in. Lots of posts question the accuracy of the overhead computer, so I'm assuming you double-checked by hand calcs.

- Power will also increase after break-in, but IMO if a stock Duramax can outrun you with a similar load, something is wrong with your truck. It shouldn't even be close.



Dave
 
Originally posted by DPelletier

- I would imagine that it is realistic to expect a 1 - 3 mpg increase after break-in. Lots of posts question the accuracy of the overhead computer, so I'm assuming you double-checked by hand calcs.

- Power will also increase after break-in, but IMO if a stock Duramax can outrun you with a similar load, something is wrong with your truck. It shouldn't even be close.



Dave

That is what I thought about economy and had been told by some of my buddies with the Dodges.



The power thing is what troubles me most though. The really strange thing is that sometimes, it felt like it had more than enough power than, others, it would fall flat on its face for what seemed like a small hill. I almost wonder if I am not having an injector problem the way the power seemed to come and go.



Just to clear thing up a little though, the Dmax that I owned is not a real good comparison for economy since it was smaller and lighter but, the other one that my buddy owns is nearly the same truck as mine, minus four wheel drive. I know, that adds weight but, from a power stand point and the numbers Dodge is claiming on this new truck of mine, I expected to be doing better than I am with it.
 
Originally posted by ckukla

That is what I thought about economy and had been told by some of my buddies with the Dodges.



The power thing is what troubles me most though. The really strange thing is that sometimes, it felt like it had more than enough power than, others, it would fall flat on its face for what seemed like a small hill. I almost wonder if I am not having an injector problem the way the power seemed to come and go.



Just to clear thing up a little though, the Dmax that I owned is not a real good comparison for economy since it was smaller and lighter but, the other one that my buddy owns is nearly the same truck as mine, minus four wheel drive. I know, that adds weight but, from a power stand point and the numbers Dodge is claiming on this new truck of mine, I expected to be doing better than I am with it.



I'd say something is wrong with your truck. I'm in Missouri and we have some hills you guys would probably call speed bumps,. . we call the Ozarks. I pulled a GCVW load from KC to St. L that weighed 20. 3k lbs and the longest steepest hill which usually will bring a strong truck down to around 50mph (I've had both Chevy and Ford) I took at 75 in tow mode on cruise. Definitely,... something is wrong with your the truck.
 
Every time I head out of town, I go up the Brenda Mine Hill. I'ts a 6-7% grade and goes on for 10 minutes or so. I'm at 17,800 GCVW. My '96 PSD would pull at 44 mph (at only 14,500 GCVW), my '01. 5 ETC Auto would pull it in second at 50 mph. the '03 ETH DEE will pull it in fifth @ 62 - 65 mph. If I drop down to 12,000 - 13,000 lbs GCVW, I can go as fast as I want in fifth, but I can't pull the really big hills in 6th unless I'm close to empty.

I'm really happy with the performance. Nothing like passing cars or import trucks going uphill with the camper on!

Most dyno results I have seen have put the 600 close to the 555 output-wise. Probably part of the reason is the 600's may not have been fully broken-in, but regardless, you should have a slight power advantage over my '03. Hope this gives you an idea of what to expect from a properly operating ETH.



Dave
 
I believe Vail Pass is a 6% grade for about 2 or 3 miles. Pretty good climb. I did calc. my milage by hand, the overhead was off by about 2 mpg on the first tank but, pretty close on the rest. I suspect that has more to do with how many times I click the filling handle to get to the nearest dollar. I do keep a log of every mile on this thing as some of it is a tax write off for me.
 
What is the altitude at Vail Pass? Above 10,000 feet there is a significant decrease in availabe oxygen for combustion.



Also, the fuel software adjusts various engine parameters as part of the 'learning' software. I wonder if this might explain some of the posts regarding decreasing mileage under similar conditions.



Also, did you follow the Cummins break-in instructions as posted in this forum? I believe one is suppose to drive fairly gently for the first 1,000 miles.



You also mentioned CA fuel: did you buy any of the low-sulfur 'clean' diesel there? The high price per gallon you paid makes me think so. I have read other posts here of drivers being unhappy with engine power using ultra-clean diesel.



Variables are load, fuel, altitude, road speed, vehicle weight, tire inflation plus others I'm sure I'm forgetting.



Also, if you got a bad load of fuel your fuel filter may be somewhat restricted. That alone would put the brakes on your maximum fueling, so to speak.



Just some ideas. It still sounds like you have a nice truck!
 
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5th gear towing vail pass west to east is really pretty astounding. 6% average on that climb, with sections that approach 7. 5% I'd bet.



Anyhow, take it to a well calibrated dyno (Colorado Diesel in castle rock maybe?) and get the real numbers you are putting to the ground.



Jon.
 
Vail pass east to west climb is actually a fairly mild grade. West to east climb is a bit steeper, but the really steep one is west to east up the Eisenhower (sp) tunnel.
 
I did follow the listed break in instructions for the engine. I am sure I did end up with some of California's clean air fuel. I suppose that would explain a little but, my poor fuel economy was not on California fuel. The lack of power was also not on Cailfornia fuel for the most part as by the time I was in the mountains, I was on Colorado fuel.



As far as elevation effect, it was the same elevation for both the Dodge and the Dmax so, I throw that out.



The fuel filter was suggested to me by one of my buddies here and I will check that when I get home from work today. I don't drive the truck to work.



I can't wait to get this thing on a dyno to see what it does. I haven't had time since I got enough mile on it to be comfortable with running it on one. Soon hopefully.



Vail pass has a steep section near the top on the East bound side that slowed the truck to 60 but, it recovered to 65 before it hit the top. The truck held 65 up Eisenhower as well.



The trucks power was acceptable but, for the numbers it was supposed to put up, it was very disappointing. I will be taking it in next week to get looked over when they are giving me my first free oil change:D
 
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Thanks for the data, especially regarding the clean air fuel. The dynamometer was also a good idea.



Please let us know what this turns out to be. My 600 is about to go on the boat in Mexico so I will be having these trials and tribulations soon enough.



In a related story, the first 600 in this region showed up at my dealership last week. The Shop Manager and I took it for a test drive. It was a 4x4 dually with the 48RE. The Shop Manager has a Duramax and I have driven his before and after his power upgrade.



I must say the 600 did not put me back in the seat. There is a steep hill here I use for reference. The stock Duramax did, and the after-fueling box BOY did it pin me back.



It is anecdotal but from what I have read here people are experiencing different power/mileage issues with similar driving and loads. I wonder what is going on..... :confused:
 
The good and bad as I have experienced:



old truck - 2003 2500 HO 6 spd 3. 73 axle 4x4

new truck - 2004. 5 3500 auto 4. 10 srw 4x4



new truck = more power, very noticeable in driving and towing.



old truck - MUCH better mileage



3100 miles and counting
 
JWerkheiser:



It's the Deep Molten Red that kills the milage. I'm sure that the 4x4 48RE and 4. 10's have no effect what-so-ever. :)
 
Yeah, must be the paint. The net drive ratios are actually very similar (6 spd 3. 73 vs 48RE 4. 10), certainly not enough to account for the 19mpg vs 12mpg difference.
 
Originally posted by JWerkheiser

The good and bad as I have experienced:



old truck - 2003 2500 HO 6 spd 3. 73 axle 4x4

new truck - 2004. 5 3500 auto 4. 10 srw 4x4



new truck = more power, very noticeable in driving and towing.



old truck - MUCH better mileage



3100 miles and counting



Power and mileage? Perhaps there really is no such thing as a free lunch.



All I know is I am really looking forward to moving from my second gen to the 600. Can't wait!
 
Originally posted by OHale

Thanks for the data, especially regarding the clean air fuel. The dynamometer was also a good idea.



Please let us know what this turns out to be. My 600 is about to go on the boat in Mexico so I will be having these trials and tribulations soon enough.



In a related story, the first 600 in this region showed up at my dealership last week. The Shop Manager and I took it for a test drive. It was a 4x4 dually with the 48RE. The Shop Manager has a Duramax and I have driven his before and after his power upgrade.



I must say the 600 did not put me back in the seat. There is a steep hill here I use for reference. The stock Duramax did, and the after-fueling box BOY did it pin me back.



It is anecdotal but from what I have read here people are experiencing different power/mileage issues with similar driving and loads. I wonder what is going on..... :confused:



As they say,... it's your party, ... . but I'm going through a mess with this vibration thing on my 600 for the past two months and the dealer has had this thing more than I have. If I were you and after you do a test drive if it has that problem I would not buy that vehicle,... no way. They either don't know what is wrong with these trucks are they are unwilling to spend the dough to fix them. Meanwhile your stuck. You on the otherhand are not stuck until you sign the paper. Think about it.
 
As they say,... it's your party, ... . but I'm going through a mess with this vibration thing on my 600 for the past two months and the dealer has had this thing more than I have. If I were you and after you do a test drive if it has that problem I would not buy that vehicle,... no way. They either don't know what is wrong with these trucks are they are unwilling to spend the dough to fix them. Meanwhile your stuck. You on the otherhand are not stuck until you sign the paper. Think about it.



If you re-check my post you will find I had no intention of buying that dually. My sig shows the truck I have on order.



Sorry you aren't having a good time with your truck. Could happen to me too. My 95 went through all the standard fixes/issues.



My party? My party is having fun and eagerly awaiting my new truck. If it isn't right Dodge will fix it or buy it. I don't spend a lot of time wringing my hands over things like that.



You will find most posters here love their trucks, and forums are generally top-heavy with truck problems rather than people posting about trouble-free trucks.



So, what are you going to do with your truck? Keep hating it? Think about it..... :D
 
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