Gutless 600????

[Camp]

You guys are going to love this. I just scheduled an appointment to have my truck looked at and described the problems I was having to the service writer on the phone. Here is a short recap of what I was getting for answers and my thoughts.



Problem one: I am having poor economy.

Answer: Well, they will get between 8 and 12 mpg until you get over the 10-12K mile mark, then it will go up a little bit. They don't rate the diesels for economy.

Thoughts: I might be able to buy that one a little bit but, I am thinking this guy is feeding me a load of crap because he doesn't know what he is talking about.



Problem two: No power, I could spank this truck with a stock '03 Dmax.

Answer: Well, you are pulling it up in the rpm range right? This truck does not have the turbo kick in until 2200 rpm, unlike the old 12 valve trucks where it came on at about 600 rpm. Dodge was having too much trouble tearing up the drivetrain and transmissions with this truck so, they had to move the power band out further. I have had to ride with the customer and tell them to pull it up,... . you gotta get it up to 4500 or 5000 rpm where it is making power.

My response as I stop him in mid sentence: Ahhh, not going to happen. This truck has a soft rev limiter at 3250 rpm. You are not going to get it to pull 4500 to 5000 rpm.

Thoughts: This guy is an idiot and needs to just document the problems I am having and shut up.





The conversation continued on as he told me that was news to him. He claims to have not messed with the new trucks. I thought is was funny right off the bat when I had told him that I needed to schedule an appointment for my truck and that I had recently taken delivery thru them of the 600 cummins. He responed with, "Ok, that is an '03?"





Guess I will be finding a different dealer to service my truck if the intelligence of the staff does not seem to improve as I talk to there techs rather than their service writters.

 

[OT-OF-HERE!!]

Originally posted by OHale

If you re-check my post you will find I had no intention of buying that dually. My sig shows the truck I have on order.



Sorry you aren't having a good time with your truck. Could happen to me too. My 95 went through all the standard fixes/issues.



My party? My party is having fun and eagerly awaiting my new truck. If it isn't right Dodge will fix it or buy it. I don't spend a lot of time wringing my hands over things like that.



You will find most posters here love their trucks, and forums are generally top-heavy with truck problems rather than people posting about trouble-free trucks.



So, what are you going to do with your truck? Keep hating it? Think about it.....

Well as I said they have it again. Yes I love the truck. But I hate the vibration. If you'd walked in my shoes the last two months where your hand goes numb on the steering wheel of a $46k truck, your butt in numb, it sounds like a helicopter riding about 75 ft above your truck and you can't talk on a cell phone going down the highway,... your perspective may clear up should you be unfortunate enough to have what I have. Just trying to shed some light for you to save you this. Later.

 

[klenger]

ckukla: 8 - 12 MPG and full power at 5000 RPM? Sounds like a Hemi.



Which dealer were you at? I've had good results at Broadway Dodge.

 

[Camp]

I was talking to the writer at Christopher's Dodge World. For what ever it is worth, One of the guys on my Rock Crawling team is a tech at Medved in Castle Rock. He said their diesel tech is really sharp so, that is where mine will be going if these guys don't fix it. My buddy does not have the diesel training so, he would not be the one to work on it at Castle Rock.

 

[InThinAir]

Christopher Dodge the largest Dodge Truck Dealer in the nation! What I will say about my experiences there are that the techs do a good job. But the writers, the last time I was in there, meaning the last time and the last... time, I almost got in a fight with the service writer. He was an AH with a couple Ear rings.



But I will say about pulling up the hills in CO.



Get an EGT!!!



If you are having to downshift to fifth because of loss of power, you have sent the temps off the scale. It is certainly a misconception that you can't burn these things up stock. I have heard that some diesels defuel when the air coming out of the inner cooler hits a certain temp, but unless something has changed the ISB doesn't stop you from pushing it over its limit.

 

[rashwor]

From the sounds of that service writer, you called a Ford dealership!

 

[milehigh.o.]

Here is my insight on this topic, I have a boat guess that when I goto Lake Powell I am pulling about 10,000-11,000 lbs. I have done this run twice, once with a 2002 Duramax auto 3. 73 and the other time with my 02 Dodge HO 6spd 4. 10.



Towing with the Duramax (10k miles on it at the time) I averaged 10-11 mpg the speed up each pass was no more than 75 mph but not less than 60mph. I was impressed with this truck.



Now towing with the Dodge HO (13k mile on it at the time) I averaged the same MPG but how ever the speed had me at 55mph and in 5th gear. There was no towing up any pass in 6th gear which is overdrive anyway. I kept it at 55mph to keep the EGT down, I could have and did 65mph but the EGT was climbing.



Try towing an automatic in overdrive on those passes and see how fast you go, or see how quickly you need a new transmission.



I can't wait to do this in the 600 and see what happens. Hoping it will out do the duramax but that allison is awesome in its own way and will out do the 48re. If only we could get that transmission in the dodge, there would be no competition.



my . 02 for having tried both vehicles.

 

[KevinO]

If I'm not mistaken doesn' t the allison have to be powerlimited in 1st and 5th gear because it can't handle the power of the duramax as is. why would you want that kind of transmission in an even more powerful truck.

 

[DPelletier]

I would expect an '01 or '02 duramax to slightly overpower a 245/505 HO, but not a 305/555. As I have said before a 600 should have no problem outrunning a DM.



Dave

 

[Camp]

Well, I just got the call from the dealer to come get it. They couldn't find my electical gremlin that caused the seat belt dinger to go off... ..... can't wait to get that one again half way across the country.



They didn't find any problem with the power either. So, I guess getting spanked by at '03 bone stock Duramax with a heavier load behind it is Ok and what I should expect.



Wow, really makes me feel great about my purchase

 

[milehigh.o.]

Run that thing up at Bandamire on Wednesday night (test and Tune) and see what it runs off the line. See if anyone else has run a stock 600 and compare numbers. If not let me know I would be up for running mine to compare. Oo.

 

[claymike]

I took my 04. 5 for a shake down run towing my 30’ triple slide 5er. We went over Mt Hood (Cascades) then over to Hood River Oregon and back down the Columbia Gorge where there was a 25 mph head wind. I was able to tow over the Cascades at speed limit which is 55 mph. I am towing at a gross combined weight of 21,500 pounds, so being able to go over in 5th gear was a good thing. This is my 5th CTD and what I really notice over my 2001, which by the way only had stage 2 injectors was the new truck has no and I mean NO power under 2100 rpm with the load I was towing, although it did go over the Cascades in 5th where as my 01 had to do it in 4th before I installed the sticks. I also notice that while towing I have to increase the shift point another 300 rpms over the 01. From 2200 rpm on up hang on there is plenty of poop.



To make a long story longer there was a big difference from the 12v to the 24v to get use to where the power band was, now with the new 3 gen trucks seem to be an animal all their own.

 

[DPelletier]

Odd,

I test drove my new 600 before I knew it was a 600 (dealer told me it was a 555 and I didn't check underneath or underhood until after the drive). The result was, it ran much the same as I would expect and very similar to my 555. I noticed little to no difference in torque curve characteristics, etc. although, to be fair, I did think it had good power considering it had 15mi on it. Felt about the same as my 555 which now has 10,000 mi. Loading them both up and heading up the big hill would probably be a better indicator of how much more power the 600 has over the 555, but seat-of-the-pants, it was hard to tell the difference.



Dave

 

[dieselpilot1969]

Originally posted by Camp

So, up to this point, I have been relatively happy with my new 600. Over this past weekend, I made a run from Denver to So. Cal. for a rockcrawling competition. The new truck feels very stable but, it is gutless and eats fuel like no other. I realize that the engine is not fully broke in by any means but, it gets really expensive to buy fuel in So. Cal. at $2. 65/gal.



I left Denver with a full tank and about 8000 lbs behind it. The first hill on Hwy 70 in Golden made me downshift to 5th. My Duramax never used to need to downshift for that hill. At the end of the first tank of fuel running 75 mph, I avg. 10. 5 mpg. Not too bad for such a fresh motor since I only had 1450 miles on it when I left.



I filled up in Fruita, Colorado and ran to Ritchfield, Utah on my second tank, averaging 75 mph. That tank got 9. 5 mpg. Not really understanding why it dropped but, can still live with it as there are plenty of long climbs running across there.



From Ritchfield I filled up and ran to Las Vegas. That tank only got 8. 5 mpg averaging 75 mph. OK, now this is getting silly as my Dmax would get 12-14mpg on that stretch at that speed with that load.



From there I ran into California and ran around the desert so, ignor that last tank for economy concerns. The problem is that I had very little power pulling the hills on the way out but, thought maybe it was just my expectations were too high for power and there was actually plenty of power for what it was supposed to have.



On the way home, I ran 65 mph and was able to get between 11 and 12 mpg most of the way but, Vail pass is where I determined that this thing is gutless. It fell on its face right at the bottom and I had to downshift to 5th. From there I put it on the floor and it stayed there until the top. I only had one of our buggies on the trailer so, like I said, 8000 lbs. max. I crested the pass at 65 mph but, that was all it had, period.



I am sad about this speed at Vail pass and power because over Easter, we pulled two of our buggies on one trailer over vail pass at the same speed with my buddies Dmax. He was pulling with a completely stock '03 dually and had another 4000 lbs behind it than what I just pulled with.



I am not trying to insinuate that the Dmax is some superior engine or anything else, just looking to see if you guys have any ideas? This hurts as the dmax I sold would walk all over this new truck and get much better fuel economy doing it. Is there something wrong with my new truck?



Oh yeah, on the way back, in the middle of Utah, my seat belt light and bell started going off for no reason. I had to unplug the wire at the buckle to get it to shut up as I was belted in. Thanks to what I have read from you guys here, I knew I could do that and get it to stop chiming.



What do you guys think? Is it really that huge of a difference for economy and power between a fresh engine and a broken in one? I now have over 3500 miles on it since the trip is 1000 miles each way.

might be an altitude issue

 

[Camp]

Re: Re: Gutless 600????

Originally posted by dieselpilot1969

might be an altitude issue

The problem with that idea is that as I got lower in elevation on my way to California, the economy got worse. There should have been more air and economy should have gone up. Also, the other worry is that I am going to get spanked by a bone stock '03 Duramax. That is based on his performance over the same passes. Don't think there is much else to that one since I drive the Duramax half the time. We alternate whose truck we take for our trips to competitions and alternate drivers since the trips are so long.



I think I am going to have to take someone's advice earlier and go put this thing on a dyno. I may take the Dmax too and see how the numbers compare.

 

[OT-OF-HERE!!]

Originally posted by Camp

Well, I just got the call from the dealer to come get it. They couldn't find my electical gremlin that caused the seat belt dinger to go off... ..... can't wait to get that one again half way across the country.



They didn't find any problem with the power either. So, I guess getting spanked by at '03 bone stock Duramax with a heavier load behind it is Ok and what I should expect.



Wow, really makes me feel great about my purchase









Take it to a different dealer. What you described is not right. If you quit,... they'll be more than happy to do so also.

 

[Camp]

Originally posted by OT-OF-HERE!!



Take it to a different dealer. What you described is not right. If you quit,... they'll be more than happy to do so also.

I plan on it but, what a hassel. My time is limited, like everyone else, and I don't know when I am going to have time to get it in somewhere else.

 

[DPelletier]

That would be great if you could dyno your truck and the DM. From what I'm reading you should be in the 260 - 280 rwhp range, but as each dyno is slightly different, the comparison between your 600 and the stock DM would be even more useful. If someone else had another 600 to run at the same time, you'd have all the info you could want.



Dave

 

[Camp]

I don't know anyone else with a 600 here local but, I did talk to my buddy with the Dmax. I am just looking for a dyno now. I called ATS and they want $100 for 3 runs. Is that normal or is there somewhere a little cheaper? I know my roommate dyno'd his for $30 but, that was on a dyno day so I would guess that was some special rate.



I did have another thought about this lack of power thing that maybe you guys can answer. Does this new larger computer monitor the egt's at all and defuel? Is it possible that I was making too much boost and defueling? My gauges were on backorder from Geno's when I left for this trip and I am hoping to have them to install this weekend.

 

[kstehnacs]

njtackle's dyno'ed his new lo mile 600 at xtreme diesel and got 262hp and 502tq. I'm not sure if the dyno program corrects, but we are close to sea level.