Hard starting

[Darkbloodmon]

Got another reply and they recommend that I check the return flow rate. I'm sur there are instructions to do that?

thanks

Return flow on your injectors I assume?

 

[william lopoulos]

Another suggestion that I just received was about the pressure relief valve. Any thoughts about that?

 

[Darkbloodmon]

Another suggestion that I just received was about the pressure relief valve. Any thoughts about that?

The pressure relief valve can cause a hard start issue if it's stuck open and returning fuel as you're cranking which it shouldn't be. Since you don't have gauges you'll want to get a scan tool able to verify pressures while cranking and while driving. For reference my 03 with a rail pressure gauge on a cold start at idle will be aprox. 5K

Another quick and dirty way to check would be to disconnect the 19mm banjo bolt holding the line on top of the relief valve, put a paper towel or rag over the valve, close the hood and crank the engine to turn it over. If fuel comes out while cranking or at idle you have an issue with the valve. Keep in mind you need aprox. 4-5K psi to turn over. This is still alot of pressure and caution needs to be used. Do not perform this with the FCA unplugged, in the event that the valve is blown, the FCA will be sending max pressure to the rail and through the valve aswell if it's on capped.

The valve has a spring and can develop a memory once poped open for the first time following system pressure spikes. Fuel spikes shouldn't be a concern with a properly functioning FCA and CP3.

To follow up on the Return flow test, this is measuring the return from you're injectors, same concept on the rail relief valve. If they are worn, they will return too much fuel while cranking and you won't build the pressure you need to turnover.

Here is a Master Tech video link on this process. You'll want to isolate the hardline return coming from the back of the head away from the fuel bowl return circuit and measure how much fuel comes out after a minute at idle, more than 180ml and you've got over flow. pic below, excuse my hand writing

You can retest this after retorquing the connector tube nuts, but being realistic you've got 350K on stock injectors with a stock filtration system. The injectors are past their prime. If you're having cranking issues after monitoring normal crank pressure on the CP3 i'd be looking at the injectors, a new OEM rail valve wouldn't hurt but verify if it's needed first.

 

[william lopoulos]

I have never seen it anywhere near 4 or 5K while cranking, but I have battery issues on the tester that I need to fix. I have ordered the test kit for fuel return test, is it difficult to access the port? I will replace the batteries in my tester and retest, it frequently shuts off while I am cranking.

thanks

 

[Darkbloodmon]

I have never seen it anywhere near 4 or 5K while cranking, but I have battery issues on the tester that I need to fix. I have ordered the test kit for fuel return test, is it difficult to access the port? I will replace the batteries in my tester and retest, it frequently shuts off while I am cranking.

thanks

You could just have a reputable shop test it, It's a bit specific of a tool if you're not in the trade. But verify your cranking pressures on the reman CP3 when you get new batteries for your tester.

Access to that port in the back of the head is difficult, I figure it's a blind job laying across the top of the engine. I'm pulling my trans(again) this weekend, I'll grab a pic of it then.

 

[william lopoulos]

I fixed the batteries in the scan tool and have been able to watch for 2 very hard (warm) starts. Pressure was around 1500 - 1800 and didn't go higher until it started. On the second start, I also watched it when I shut it off. It went INSTANTLY down to 40, in about 1 second. Does this at all point to the pressure releif valve? Still no codes and no observable codes when starting.

Would it be a good idea to proactively replace the valve since it looks easy to do?

thanks

 

[Ozymandias]

Interesting results, pulled off the FCA connector, truck started up OK too fast to read the cranking pressure. Put the connector back on, same thing! What the... for the next few days, truck would start OK, then not. Then over the weekend, started REALLY hard and was idling really rough and cycling, vrrOOM, vroOOM, etc. Started to suspect bad contact on the FCA. Just cleaned the connector plug on the harness with deoxit, then has a REALLY hard time getting it back on. Did get it back on, truck started OK.

Still need to phase the pump, will do when I can. But I am now wondering if some of the problems are due to a dirty contact on the FCA harness connector?

More investigation needed

Thank you

Change the FCA wire pigtail, they are well known to fail and easily available.

 

[Darkbloodmon]

Here is that pic of the back of the head. Not to far from the bottom of the rocker box but not a pleasant job laying across the engine and feeling for it.

 

[william lopoulos]

I have replaced the FCA pigtail and the pressure relief valve. Am I down to the injectors? Should I use the cap tool and go through the rail 1 by 1, or just replace all the injectors and tubes? I don't think I can get to the back of the head.

thanks

 

[Darkbloodmon]

I have replaced the FCA pigtail and the pressure relief valve. Am I down to the injectors? Should I use the cap tool and go through the rail 1 by 1, or just replace all the injectors and tubes? I don't think I can get to the back of the head.

thanks

Are you still having all the same symptoms?

 

[william lopoulos]

Yes. Still REALLY hard starting, pressure not getting above 1800 during starting

 

[Darkbloodmon]

Yes. Still REALLY hard starting, pressure not getting above 1800 during starting

I don't think there's much left but to replace the injectors, you could try retorqueing the connector tube nuts or you can cap off the lines one by one as well and isolate the worst one(s) and try to replace them, but 350,000mi is a good bit, new injectors and new tubes can't possibly hurt it, your wallet on the other hand is a different discussion with your accountant.

If you're replacing the injectors you'd still be laying across the engine reaching to number 6, the crash bracket has to be swung off to the side to reach number 6's hard line. Not to much farther from the return line.

 

[william lopoulos]

OK, I will bite the bullet and wallet, and do the injectors. I will have a new truck afterwards, right? Except the rotting body..... Can't buy new vehicles now anyway...

Any special tools that I need besides 1/4 torque wrench and tube puller?

This is my order:

BD-POWER 1715505 REMANUFACTURED FUEL INJECTORS
DTECH DT590017 INJECTOR CONNECTOR TUBE SET
CTA TOOLS 2746 HIGH-PRESSURE INJECTOR CONNECTOR TUBE REMOVER

And I will find a reasonable 1/4" torque wrench. Do I need the Lisle 12330 19MM Line Socket maybe?

thanks

 

[Darkbloodmon]

OK, I will bite the bullet and wallet, and do the injectors. I will have a new truck afterwards, right? Except the rotting body..... Can't buy new vehicles now anyway...

Any special tools that I need besides 1/4 torque wrench and tube puller?

This is my order:

BD-POWER 1715505 REMANUFACTURED FUEL INJECTORS
DTECH DT590017 INJECTOR CONNECTOR TUBE SET
CTA TOOLS 2746 HIGH-PRESSURE INJECTOR CONNECTOR TUBE REMOVER

And I will find a reasonable 1/4" torque wrench. Do I need the Lisle 12330 19MM Line Socket maybe?

thanks

I would only recommend BBI injectors I installed a new set of stage 0.1s just about a year ago and I've had no issues. Get a quality 1/4 torque wrench I used a Tekton, It's a pretty basic hand tool job a line wrench set and some box wrenches will do majority of it out side the valve cover. There are a few write ups on the process on this forum and numerous visual examples on youtube.

I would recommend, power washing the top of your valve cover and manifold shelf before you start (let it dry) to remove any debris or dirt from your work area and soaking the connections with some penetrating oil since you live in a corrosive climate.

Follow the factory service manual instructions and you'll be fine. You don't have to get the specialized tools, just be careful and take your time.

 

[william lopoulos]

I see several stages. What does that mean and what should I use?

 

[Darkbloodmon]

I see several stages. What does that mean and what should I use?

If you're looking for the stock most option stage 0.1, higher stages for higher power setups needing more fuel flow.

 

[cerberusiam]

If your looking to save $$ and don't really need performance get the BBI stock remans Stage .5, or, let Martin know you just want a slightly tuned stock set. The .5's without some tuning can be a little smoky at idle depending on the truck.

 

[Ozymandias]

Get the BBi,best you can get for the buck sand they really stand behind their product.

 

[william lopoulos]

Well, I am deep into it.... Haven't been this filthy in years. I have the first five lines and tubes off, but I just can't see hw to get to #6. It is just way back there. I have removed the lift hook, needed to do that to remove #5. Any ideas or shall I skip it? Hate to do that.... but it is my only vehicle and I can't have it down for a long time.

Got 0.1 stage BBI, I really do very little towing. Going to start putting them in tomorrow

I must say, I am impressed with the cover gasket/harness design. I am an engineer and must say I'm not sure I would have thought of that.

Also, I bought every tool I could find that was recommended (except the top creeper, REALLY regretting not getting that) and I needed every tool. I have the 24mm special flair nut wrench and I just can't get to that last line. And if I start messing with it and am unsuccessful, I am screwed because I'm sure it will leak. Of course if that injector happens to be bad, I am still screwed.

 

[Darkbloodmon]

Well, I am deep into it.... Haven't been this filthy in years. I have the first five lines and tubes off, but I just can't see hw to get to #6. It is just way back there. I have removed the lift hook, needed to do that to remove #5. Any ideas or shall I skip it? Hate to do that.... but it is my only vehicle and I can't have it down for a long time.

Got 0.1 stage BBI, I really do very little towing. Going to start putting them in tomorrow

I must say, I am impressed with the cover gasket/harness design. I am an engineer and must say I'm not sure I would have thought of that.

Also, I bought every tool I could find that was recommended (except the top creeper, REALLY regretting not getting that) and I needed every tool. I have the 24mm special flair nut wrench and I just can't get to that last line. And if I start messing with it and am unsuccessful, I am screwed because I'm sure it will leak. Of course if that injector happens to be bad, I am still screwed.

It's do-able, you can remove the hood latch so its not stabbing you in your stomach, but you just gotta lay across and reach it. Are you just having trouble reaching it or is it just seized on with corrosion?