Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Has DaimlerChrysler Taken You For a Ride?

[AKaiser]

Cummins Inc. sells the engines to D/C without warranty. I doubt you'll find Cummins covering anything.

Regardless of who pays, the warranty says "cost of repairing. "

 

[AlFischer]

This has to be one of the most interesting posts I have seen on TDR in the past 5 years! I must admire Thomas for his professionalism and tenacity.



Seems I for P1693 yesterday ands have not had a scan tools attached, but most likely the VP44. 76,000 miles. First time for any code.



Now, for us that have FIXED D/Cs fuel pump by adding a boost pump and gauges, is there any hope that D/C will not stand firm that the modification is the cause of the failure? My F/P goes as high as 18 PSI at idle and about 15-16 under load. Engine runs fine.

 

[SnoKing]

A P1693 only means that there is a code in the other module, and it not that big of a deal. Now dead pedal and PO216 is another issue. SNOKING

 

[AlFischer]

I'm sure hoping it is not the vp44. Heading for Autozone Monday.



BTW what is the best vendor for a rebuilt VP44? Don't have much hopes for anything else.



Can my FP of 18PSI no load cause any problems?

 

[MWinters]

suggestions please

OK guys - I live in central Illinois & last weekend we were in Louisville, KY. My 99 is bone stock except for the addition of a Westach 40 psi gage. I have 109,000 miles on it. At 5:00 in rush hour traffic the truck died - fuel pressure still running around 12 psi measured post filter. Towed to local Dodge Dealer (Cardinal Dodge) & the results were BOTH lift pump & VP44 pump failures. The repair set me back about $3750 PLUS rental car PLUS 2 more days in the hotel :{



So last Friday after my blood pressure returned to "almost normal" I called the local Dodge dealer where I purchased the truck new to confirm: that I did not get ripped off on the charges ; to confer w/their diesel tech ; & to also to get the phone # for customer relations, assuming the warranty had already expired.



My call to Dodge (800-992-1997) Customer Relations SO FAR is going OK. At no time did I ever mention warranty. I was looking for some policy settlement. I'm getting the feeling that I am going to get some money out of this. HOWEVER, this was before I've read this excellent e-mail thread & feel my position is now stronger than before as the 1st person I spoke to transferred me to a Sr. Staff person who is contacting Cardinal Dodge for verification of the repairs. This all has taken about 1 hr of time, so @ least they did not tell me to forget it . I expect a phone call Monday or Tuesday next week.



Questions for me to consider prior to next call from Dodge:



1. I doubt if Dodge will pay the full bill of $ 3750 initially. If they only pay some portion of the bill, should I refuse to accept the payment & DEMAND they honor the warranty policy, & do the best to negotiate a better settlement ?



2. I payed w/Master Card - should I call them & hold payment ? (not sure if this has already transpired yet or not since it has been a week now)



2. If I accept any lower settlement fee, can I still go back through the Dodge dealer & claim warranty ?



Again I guess what I am trying to do is figure out how I should handle the next phone call from Dodge Customer Assistance. I have been VERY PASSIVE in these conversations thus far.



BY the way, thanks to all for the help & guidance over the years. I don't post much, but appreciate all those who take the time to share their experiences



Thanks again,

Mike.

 

[Thomas]

My strategy was to put the repairing dealership in the defensive position rather than D/C. That was quite easy given California Small Claims Court rules and a local repair. Your position looks a bit more difficult with the repair having been done away from home.



D/C seems to have no consistent policy regarding their honoring of the Cummins Diesel Engine Limited Warranty on the ISB Rams. Several of us were stonewalled by D/C. I think my polite (yet firm) conversation with my repairing dealer was what got the VP44 warranted. This post on another forum shows success on a 2002 VP44, though the extended powertrain warranty offerred 2002 may have come into play. I've read of several other successes.



I've also read of failures—these seem to be a case of the Ram owner allowing D/C to "explain" the engine warranty & the owner going no further.



Perhaps it would be worth investing in a bit of attorney time to get answers to your strategy questions. One thing that I never deviated from was the interpretation of the warranty. In my conversation with the repairing dealer I maintained my position that I had always known what the Cummins Diesel Engine Limited Warranty is & that the warranty was a selling point when I purchased the truck. Also, I never acknowledged any suggestions that the Cummins Diesel Engine Limited Warranty could be interpretted as running concurently with the Basic Warranty.



In any case, the lift pump is not covered.



Good luck!

 

[MWinters]

Sugestions please

I forgot to add in the fact I purchased this vehicle in April 1999, so I guess OFFICIALLY my warranty has expired by a few months even considering the new warranty info posted here (8 yr, 136,000 miles)



I still would appreciate any comments on this subject.



Thanks,

Mike.

 

[Thomas]

That seems to weaken your position by a bunch. I'd probably take anything they offerred since there doesn't seem to be any legal obligation for D/C to step up.

 

[MWinters]

suggestions

Thomas,



Thanks for taking the time to answer my problems. I'll cross my fingers & hope for the best.



Thanks again,

Mike.

 

[SnoKing]

They are also stonewalling the Washington State Athorney General! But I have not give up, yet! SNOKING

 

[rolltideram]

Friday afternoon coming home from work, I had my second "Dead Pedal" occur. I was hoping for a bad apps, so I logged in to find out how to check codes. I got a little sick when it flashed 0216. I was reading issue 47 tonight to see if I could swap out the vp44. I logged in to see where I should start looking for my new part and stumbled on this thread. My 01 has 86K on it, so tomorrow I'm going to the good ol dealer to see what happens. I have a bad habit of not keeping receipts myself. Since I was prepared to spend the money, it won't hurt to try. JC

 

[Thomas]

. . . I have a bad habit of not keeping receipts myself. . .

From the model year 2001 Warranty Information Booklet (PDF linked near the end of the initial post in this thread):



As the truck owner, you are responsible for the

performance of the required maintenance listed in your

owner's manual. DaimlerChrysler Motors Corporation

recommends that you retain all receipts covering

maintenance on your truck, but DaimlerChrysler Motors

Corporation cannot deny warranty solely for the

lack of receipts or for your failure to ensure the performance

of all scheduled maintenance.



Demanding receipts is just one more thing DaimlerChrysler does in an attempt to wiggle out of their warranty promise.



Good luck!

 

[rolltideram]

What to do?

I had to go into town today, so I stopped by the local Dodge dealer. Their mechanic is in school this week (Dodge and Ford) so I could not get my truck in till next Monday. I asked the guy at the desk if I would have a deductible so we could get into the warranty issue. He put my vin number in and printed out a couple pages. He said no deductible because my warranty has expired on "time". I told him what the manual says, and he said he had to go by the"computer". I left telling him I would have to call Dodge and check on this issue. I guess I'll call so I can get the run around. Should I just let them fix it, pay with MasterCard and then let those two companies battle it out? I'm not out to cause problems, I'm not that kind of person. But I don't want to get ripped either, I still have warranty. JC

 

[SnoKing]

I had to go into town today, so I stopped by the local Dodge dealer. Their mechanic is in school this week (Dodge and Ford) so I could not get my truck in till next Monday. I asked the guy at the desk if I would have a deductible so we could get into the warranty issue. He put my vin number in and printed out a couple pages. He said no deductible because my warranty has expired on "time". I told him what the manual says, and he said he had to go by the"computer". I left telling him I would have to call Dodge and check on this issue. I guess I'll call so I can get the run around. Should I just let them fix it, pay with MasterCard and then let those two companies battle it out? I'm not out to cause problems, I'm not that kind of person. But I don't want to get ripped either, I still have warranty. JC

I do not think they will do anything unless you take them to court like Thomas did. Which means that you have to let them fix it, pay the bill to retrive it, and then fight them in court. I took another tack, I told them because they refused warranty, I was going to repair it myself, and then claim reinbrustment. So far they continue to stonewall me and the Washington State Attorney General Office. SNOKING

 

[Thomas]

I do not think they will do anything unless you take them to court like Thomas did. . .

I never actually went to court—it was the demand letter, threatening suit, I wrote to the repairing dealer that got the dealer's attention.



That Washington State Attorney General sure moves slowly!

 

[rolltideram]

My Call to Dodge

I went ahead and made the call. After repeatadly telling the guy what the warranty book says, he finally got a copy for himself. It took him a few minutes to read that small paragraph. He came back with it runs concurently... I asked why it did not say that, and why it has not changed in newer books. After holding again he said after the 3/36 there is supposed to be a $100 deductible for the remaining 2/64. I told him my book had nothing about that. We went back and forth and I never gave in. Finally I asked if I would have to either let MasterCard handle it or take Dodge to small claims and I got put on hold again. Then he came back offering "assistance". I got a referance number and moved up to Tier 2, that means he made me talk to someone else. She could not tell me anything until the dealer gets my truck. I guess I'll let them look at it Monday and then see what Tier 2 has to say or offer. JC

 

[DDemere]

This is madness. I'm fighting Dodge and two dealerships in Austin and San Marcos, Tx to step up and change out my fuel injectors. Here's a link to my thread describing my problem with my '03: https://www.turbodieselregister.com...s-2003-2007/188319-03-not-starting-again.html

 

[MAX A/C]

Diesel Liberty warranty the same

Thomas- Great work, and thanks for posting the thread. It caused me to look at my 2006 Jeep Liberty (diesel) warranty booklet.



I know it's not a Cummins and I'm wary of the long term reliability (repair costs $$$), and I was under the impression I only have a 3/36 warranty, 'cause that's what the dealer told me.



I looked in the warranty booklet; here's what it says (Look at "C"!)

A. Who is Covered?

You are covered by the Diesel Engine Limited Warranty for up to 3 years or 36,000 miles on the odometer, whichever occurs first.



B. What's Covered

In vehicles equipped with a diesel engine, the cost of all parts and labor needed to repair any defective item on your diesel engine that is effective in material, workmanship or factory preparation is covered by the Diesel Engine Limited Warranty. There is no list of covered parts.



C. When it Begins

The Diesel Engine Warranty begins at the end of either of the following dates, whichever is earlier:

• the date your vehicle has been in service for more than 36 months; or
  
  
  
  the date you've put more than 36,000 miles on the odometer.
  

Wow!!! I now see I actually have a FACTORY 6 yr/72,000 warranty! And my booklet states "The warranties contained in this booklet are the only express warranties that DaimlerChrysler Motors Company LLC makes for your vehicle.



So, Thomas, do you think no matter that the dealer had me sign a sheet saying I have a 3/36, the booklet takes precedence and I actually have 6/72.

Thanks

Scott

 

[Thomas]

I have no idea what you signed. It's unlikely that the "document", whatever it was, will surface when you need warranty work.



I started this thread with the thought that owners would stop asking D/C to interpret the warranties when warranty work was needed. The federal law cited in the initial post plus whatever is between the covers of the warranty booklet is what the owner needs to look at.



My only wisdom concerning what you've posted regarding the diesel Liberty is to notice how distance is described in the Basic Warranty—36,000 miles on the odometer—and then again in the Diesel Engine Warranty—you've put more than 36,000 miles on the odometer. This says to me that the odometer is being used as the measuring device. It's not talking about 36000 actually appearing on the odometer.

 

[SnoKing]

I guess this all seems to show that we have a great warranty or Chrysler needs some new legal consul, to write warranty bookets. Washington State Attorney General is still waiting for them to return documents that they sent them for clarification of my Warranty.



It has been 6 months since they denied my Warranty Claim on a failing VP44. I documented with them that I was going to replace the VP44 myself and file a Warranty claim with them. They never told me to bring it back into the dealership, so they could check things out. The dealer did document the mileage when I took it in the first time and provide a VIP summary report for me. The summary report incorrectly shows the Cummins Engine Warranty expiring at the same time as the basic warranty. We all now know that the Warranty Booket states that the Cummins Engine Warranty begins at the end of the basic 3/36 warranty. This is written in plain english in the Warranty Booket as required by law. Chrysler just does not seem to be able to read their own plain english. I replaced the VP44 and the dead pedal has not returned.



They stonewalled my demand letters for repayment of the $1046. 00 for the remanufactured VP44 for 3 months and stonewalled the Wa State AG the first time around. The AG has keep after them for two months. Last report I got from the AG's office on Wednesday was that Chrysler Customer Service was talking to their lawyers, and would get back to them shortly. I take this to mean that they are no longer just stonewalling the AG out of hand and that they are now studying legally what they wrote in our warranty bookets. I even suggested to them, that if they had made a mistake in the wording in the Warranty Booket, that they could have notified me and issued a new booket in that last 5. 5 years. I think that they know that they have a can of worms here, with all the VP44 issues and 53 block issues.



Everyone fighting this battle should file a complaint with their State AG Consumer Affairs office. And if this resolves in our favor, we all owe Thomas a big thank you.



SNOKING