Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Head studs,Work involved?

[JFlagg]

I have a '02 HO and I want to put head studs on it. What work is involved and can I do it in my garage? I have just about every handtool imaginable, but are there any that I HAVE to have? Do they use the exsisting holes/threads, or do I need to drill/retap? Is it worth doing when only making about 38-40 lbs of boost max, and should I get new headgasket? Just want to eliminate future problems, by the way, I think I'm in the 425-450 HP range...

 

[GOT-Torque]

When I installed mine the first time, I just swapped out the stock head bolts for studs one at a time. No change of head gasket or anything else. I just put them in and didn't retap the holes with a bottoming tap. The front two studs didn't go in far enough so I had to grind a small amount off of the valve cover where it hit the top of the studs. What I didn't know was that the rear two studs were hitting the valve cover as well and so I got a small oil leak at the rear of the valve cover.



Later on, while I was having some head work done, I used a bottoming tap on all the holes and probably gained 1/4" of useable threads in each hole. Now all the studs go all the way in and there is no contact with the valve cover as well as no leaks.

 

[JFlagg]

What kind did you use, ARP?

 

[GOT-Torque]

yep, torque to 122 ft lbs using ARP lube (ignore the ARP specs). Replace them one at a time in a circular pattern from the center out. Initial torque to 90 ft lbs or so. Once all are installed, then retorque from the center out again to 122 ft lbs. When re-torqing (sp?) always loosen the nut to start with and then torque, don't just tighten the nut. Good Luck!

 

[Cummins724]

When I installed mine the first time, I just swapped out the stock head bolts for studs one at a time. No change of head gasket or anything else. I just put them in and didn't retap the holes with a bottoming tap. The front two studs didn't go in far enough so I had to grind a small amount off of the valve cover where it hit the top of the studs. What I didn't know was that the rear two studs were hitting the valve cover as well and so I got a small oil leak at the rear of the valve cover.



Later on, while I was having some head work done, I used a bottoming tap on all the holes and probably gained 1/4" of useable threads in each hole. Now all the studs go all the way in and there is no contact with the valve cover as well as no leaks.

I had my studs done by Advanced Diesel Technology..... I was told that head must be removed to do studs & bottom tap each hole before installing. For the price of paying a good diesel shop to do the job... it really isn't worth it for me to do it myself. He only charged 1 1/2 hours labor... . engine was out of the truck though.

 

[GOT-Torque]

Head does not have to be removed to bottom tap the holes, a bottoming tap with a long shank can be purchased (someone previously posted a link).



No way it can be done in 1. 5 hours with the engine in the truck. I'm assuming your engine was having a bunch of other work done to it (including having the head off) so this work only added 1. 5 hours to the overall job which sounds realistic.

 

[Cummins724]

Head does not have to be removed to bottom tap the holes, a bottoming tap with a long shank can be purchased (someone previously posted a link).



No way it can be done in 1. 5 hours with the engine in the truck. I'm assuming your engine was having a bunch of other work done to it (including having the head off) so this work only added 1. 5 hours to the overall job which sounds realistic.

He did the work while changing my engine after 53 block cracked. I had him do the orings too. His shop rates are cheapest that I found & work was outstanding.

 

[jerrethomas]

when we put my studs in we didn't tap the holes but we cleaned them good and checked that the stud would screw down the whole way before we put the head on. I also had the problem with the 2 studs hitting up front, had to cut the valve cover there and also had one hitting in the back we had to notch also.

 

[Jed]

ARP studs

follow the directions

use a tap

one at a time

no problems

 

[Cummins724]

ARP studs

follow the directions

use a tap

one at a time

no problems

Wouldn't that still be considered as retorqueing the head gasket though. I thought that a head gasket should never be retorqued or you are asking for leaks.

 

[Jed]

cummins 724, how would that be retorqueing the head gasket if you do the studs one at a time?

and why is it that you think a gasket should not be reused?

a good compressed gasket will not compress any more and doing the upgrade one stud at a time only increases clamping force at least as I understand it,and it certainly holds the pressure so far 20,000 miles.

 

[Forrest Nearing]

my job involves all sorts of fastener torque... if you want an even clamp load, it is VERY IMPORTANT to achieve your "click" on your wrench on a smooth pull as you "approach" the number... if your fastener is getting tight and you run out of room and have to back the wrench off and come back to the fastener, it could click as soon as you hit the bolt head and you could be an easy 10ftlbs off!!!!!



durring my stud re-torques, if I don't hit my click on a smooth pull, I back it off and start over... sounds annoying, and it is if it happens more than a couple times durring a retorque, but if you could see what happens to the numbers on a fixture when actually pulling a wrench, all of a sudden, it's not so annoying!



also, remember to click out your torque wrench at least 5-6 times at a given torque value before relying on it. some wrenches need this more than others and it's not necessarily the cheap ones that need "warming up" either! main thing is how the wrench has been taken care of... but even a wrench that's been somewhat abused SHOULD even out after 5-10 clicks at a given value



FWIW, if anyone wants/needs their torque equipment checked/calibrated, shoot me a PM and I'll see what I can do

 

[Cummins724]

cummins 724, how would that be retorqueing the head gasket if you do the studs one at a time?

and why is it that you think a gasket should not be reused?

a good compressed gasket will not compress any more and doing the upgrade one stud at a time only increases clamping force at least as I understand it,and it certainly holds the pressure so far 20,000 miles.

I guess you would be ok doing it that way... . I have never retorqued a head gasket & was only asking a question. Thinking of it now... I agree that it would be ok if you are doing it one at a time. I went to school for engine rebuilding & high performance... my instructor said to never try to retorque a head gasket especially when running high horsepower or boost. In this case... you wouldn't really be retorqueing the gasket. It is just a rule in my head that stuck... anyone who builds performance engines that I've talked to has told me the same thing... . never retorque a head gasket.

 

[rivercat]

I would recomend to anyone that has doubts about their HG to remove one or more rocker pedistals and look under them in the oil passage for HG paper. If you find any paper I would replace the gasket with stock or 10 over the 20 over one that Jet pilot sells is just a marine gasket that has 5 water jacket holes punched out. He charges over 2 bills with shipping for his and you can get it from cummins for 70-80 bones and get a punch set for around 30. I will find the part # for the 20 over HG if you post that you need it.

 

[Jed]

I guess you would be ok doing it that way... . I have never retorqued a head gasket & was only asking a question. Thinking of it now... I agree that it would be ok if you are doing it one at a time. I went to school for engine rebuilding & high performance... my instructor said to never try to retorque a head gasket especially when running high horsepower or boost. In this case... you wouldn't really be retorqueing the gasket. It is just a rule in my head that stuck... anyone who builds performance engines that I've talked to has told me the same thing... . never retorque a head gasket.

My mechanic has a 12 valve that he drag races. When he fire ringed he used his old head gasket figuring that since it was compressed and it fit his head and block that it would work. He is running 45 to 55 lbs of boost with no problem (other than blowing transmission) yet, however this truck is not a daily driver so YMMV.

As far as the topic of this thread goes it is an easy process if done right.

I have to wonder why some people would pay the money for the studs and then not install them correctly. Making a 4 relief cuts in valve cover because you did not want to use a tap seems like heresy and you are not getting the full benefit of the parts that you are installing.

 

[Forrest Nearing]

Jed, with the old style ARP's, at least on the 12v engines, you have to clearance the valve covers even if you bottom tap. and yes, you should most definately bottom tap!

 

[Jed]

OOPS, thanks Forrest

 

[Forrest Nearing]

might be a different story for 24v's, I've never worked on one of them there contraptions!

 

[Jed]

dang it, another OOOPS my brother reminded me that he was the one that actually clearanced the valve covers since I was buttoning up the front of the truck after cam install. He remembers taking valve cover to car wash to clean up aluminum chips and getting more beer. My apologies for earlier post.

 

[IC Smoke]

What is the reason for the thicker headgasket? 0. 010 and 0. 020... . woudlnt it lower the compression... . I need a HG but im not sure if I need a stock or thicker gasket.....



also who has a gasket kit to put the motor back together?? (from a o-ring install)



Does napa have a HG NP?

Thanks guys!!!

Ian Coleman