Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Timing?

[farrier]

My truck is back to running but still having issues with check engine light coming on and tach dropping off and coming back. Throwing codes P0336 and 1690.Was throwing the 1698 code before all the work and truck would not start at all. Rebuilt ECM, trouble pins replaced on plug, new plug to injector pump and new pigtail on CPS. My electrical mechanic thinks it`s a timing issue. Finding someone without an ego to protect here is key because I can`t afford to waste money on things we already know. It`s tough being female and trying to get someone here in town to treat me like I know anything at all is a challenge. I trust all of you guys here so I`m back with the ? of any ideas! Dodge wants to charge me the $157 to run a diagnostic test and I don`t need them telling me I need a new CPS or a new VP44. How do we check the timing on the VP44 with the CPS? Also another brilliant friend said there is a magnet on the drive shaft? Any ideas will be appreciated. I`ll try to tag some of you who have responded before. I read through a lot of the forums and I`m tagging a lot of you who have answered a lot of questions on similar issues. Another thing I`ve read on these threads is the door locks causing issues with starting. I do have a FASS pump on the truck as of about 8 years ago. The problems I`m having in the last year have just started. Thanks!

 

[Road Dog]

You can start with hot-wiring the VP-44 to see if it's ok. The next thing to check is ground points - one bad ground can ruin your day.

 

[farrier]

You can start with hot-wiring the VP-44 to see if it's ok. The next thing to check is ground points - one bad ground can ruin your day.

Thank you for your response. We`ve gone through all the wiring. I posted another conversation in case I was not verbalizing correctly what is going on. I`ll check with my mechanic to see if he tried hotwiring the VP44.Maybe not since the truck fired up and was running. Any thoughts on timing?

 

[farrier]

You can start with hot-wiring the VP-44 to see if it's ok. The next thing to check is ground points - one bad ground can ruin your day.

Just curious as I read the link to hot wiring the VP44. The blue fuel line was leaking and my mechanic cut it off and hooked it back up. I`m having it replaced this thursday. Was wondering if that could have caused any air in the line to cause any of this problem.

 

[petersonj]

Air in the fuel system will not set codes.

P0336 (M) Crankshaft Position (CKP) Sensor Signal - Problem with voltage signal from CKP.

P1690 (M) Fuel Injection Pump CKP Sensor Does Not Agree With ECM CKP Sensor - Problem in fuel sync signal. Possible injection pump timing problem. Low power, engine derated, or engine stops.

If the crankshaft position signal is disrupted, the ECM cannot command proper fuel injection timing. I believe a base timing signal will be provided by a sensor from the PSG on the VP44, but it will not be the correct timing.

If I recall, you have a long history of crankshaft signal problems with this truck (reading from other threads started by you). It wold help greatly for you to copy and paste the recorded data timeline from one of your other threads so people can see dates, mileage, and comments regarding the problems and repairs over a lengthy time period. Be sure to add any additional information to the log in the same format since the last update, which I believe was around February, 2023.

Also, you have not posted any information about your truck specifications in this thread. Information is key.

- John

 

[BigPapa]

When you say CPS, are you referring to the cam sensor or crank sensor? On the ‘98 & ‘99 models (and SOME early ‘00’s that still have a crank sensor) the cam sensor is only used for diagnostics and has nothing to do with controlling the fuel system.

@farrier , I’d love to help you, but I know just enough about the VP44 system to get me in trouble. I’m best with the 2nd Gen 12-valve engines.

 

[farrier]

Air in the fuel system will not set codes.

P0336 (M) Crankshaft Position (CKP) Sensor Signal - Problem with voltage signal from CKP.

P1690 (M) Fuel Injection Pump CKP Sensor Does Not Agree With ECM CKP Sensor - Problem in fuel sync signal. Possible injection pump timing problem. Low power, engine derated, or engine stops.

If the crankshaft position signal is disrupted, the ECM cannot command proper fuel injection timing. I believe a base timing signal will be provided by a sensor from the PSG on the VP44, but it will not be the correct timing.

If I recall, you have a long history of crankshaft signal problems with this truck (reading from other threads started by you). It wold help greatly for you to copy and paste the recorded data timeline from one of your other threads so people can see dates, mileage, and comments regarding the problems and repairs over a lengthy time period. Be sure to add any additional information to the log in the same format since the last update, which I believe was around February, 2023.

Also, you have not posted any information about your truck specifications in this thread. Information is key.

- John

Thanks John. I`ll have to find that information again and post it. Hunter had my truck for a few months and really cleaned up the wiring on it. What is the PSG? I wasn`t able to find my post from before and I'm not sure why but I`ll go back and do a better search

When you say CPS, are you referring to the cam sensor or crank sensor? On the ‘98 & ‘99 models (and SOME early ‘00’s that still have a crank sensor) the cam sensor is only used for diagnostics and has nothing to do with controlling the fuel system.

@farrier , I’d love to help you, but I know just enough about the VP44 system to get me in trouble. I’m best with the 2nd Gen 12-valve engines.

When you say CPS, are you referring to the cam sensor or crank sensor? On the ‘98 & ‘99 models (and SOME early ‘00’s that still have a crank sensor) the cam sensor is only used for diagnostics and has nothing to do with controlling the fuel system.

@farrier , I’d love to help you, but I know just enough about the VP44 system to get me in trouble. I’m best with the 2nd Gen 12-valve engines.

Scott thank you as well. Crank position sensor.

 

[farrier]

Air in the fuel system will not set codes.

P0336 (M) Crankshaft Position (CKP) Sensor Signal - Problem with voltage signal from CKP.

P1690 (M) Fuel Injection Pump CKP Sensor Does Not Agree With ECM CKP Sensor - Problem in fuel sync signal. Possible injection pump timing problem. Low power, engine derated, or engine stops.

If the crankshaft position signal is disrupted, the ECM cannot command proper fuel injection timing. I believe a base timing signal will be provided by a sensor from the PSG on the VP44, but it will not be the correct timing.

If I recall, you have a long history of crankshaft signal problems with this truck (reading from other threads started by you). It wold help greatly for you to copy and paste the recorded data timeline from one of your other threads so people can see dates, mileage, and comments regarding the problems and repairs over a lengthy time period. Be sure to add any additional information to the log in the same format since the last update, which I believe was around February, 2023.

Also, you have not posted any information about your truck specifications in this thread. Information is key.

- John

Good morning John. I looked up the PSG and saw that it is the computer part of the VP44. Can that be adjusted or retimed or would that mean I would need a new VP44 if that`s the case. I have an appointment with one of the better garages in town on Thursday to replace the fuel line from my FASS to the VP44 and I want to be informed before. My choices here are limited. I have an appointment with the dodge dealer as well in September and wondered if they would have more advanced computer scanners than a regular garage. Hunter said a DBR 2 or 3? would be helpful. I`ll look for my past post to copy and paste to this question. Thanks again, your input is valuable in my quest for answers!

 

[petersonj]

This is the last recording of your timeline history. Can you add to the timeline in the same format to fill in what has happened since 2-8-2023?

Timing cannot be altered. It is commanded by the ECM based on information acquired from several sensors - MAP, IAT, APPS, CPS, coolant sensor, etc.

Need to find out why the tachometer drops off and why there is an interrupted signal from the CPS. Figure this out, clear the codes and see what happens.

- John

Timeline History for Denise's 1999 Dodge Cummins (updated 10:00 am, 2-8-2023)

01-09-2015 - 228,216 - replaced injection pump with reman Bosch pump. truck had died while driving and had it towed to new diesel mechanic
**02-13-2015 -no mileage- repaired wire (doesn`t say which wire unfortunately)
10-02-2015 -no mileage- injection pump replaced under warranty (truck towed in again)
Right after this I had the FASS pump installed by same mechanic because of LP failures can`t find the ticket. I also had this mechanic install the ISSPRO gauge and a heater kit a few months after FASS was install because the fuel was freezing in the filters and pump area. (We will hit negative temps out here often in the winter.
08-17-2017 - no miles- CPS replaced by the new mechanic stated in new date 01-18-2018
**09-28-2017 - 257,600 - new alternator
**01-18-2018 -no mileage as i replaced this. Took it to new mechanic who specializes in electrical issues. He suggested I have NAPA make me a new battery cable the one across the front from positive to positive.
**08-24-2018 -diagnosed commputer issue
**09-17-2018 -no mileage- replacement ECM (says on the ticket PCM but the it is the ECM that was reman on it that year)
**03-11-2019 -no mileage- FASS pump wasn`t turning on so took it in to this same mechanic. He searched all over and found a blown fuse and this is when I found that the ISSPRO gauge was not hooked up properly because it was still registering that I had fuel pressure for the FASS pump when I knew it wasn`t running. He installed it properly.
**01-15-2023 - 299,500 - replaced the ECM again
**02-01-2023 - 299,500 - rewire FASS lift pump to be controlled by ECM. Lift pump won't run. Lift pump jumpered, but engine will not start. Codes P0336 and P1689 set.
Code P0336 - (M) Crankshaft Position (CKP) Sensor Signal - Problem with voltage signal from CKP
Code P1689 - (M) No Communication Between ECM and Injection Pump Module - Data link circuit failure between ECM and fuel injection pump. Low power, engine derated, or engine stops.
**02-08-2023 - 299,500 - verified "Wait to Start" light activates with key in "Run" position.

 

[BigPapa]

Timing cannot be altered. It is commanded by the ECM based on information acquired from several sensors - MAP, IAT, APPS, CPS, coolant sensor, etc.

It can with a programmer or something like an Edge box, can't it? Didn't she say she had something on the truck at one time?

Has she verified she has the correct key on the pump?

 

[petersonj]

Yes, a programmer can and most do alter timing during different load / rpm and throttle position conditions. But, as far as I know, her engine isn't using one. That's why I didn't mention this. Maybe she can clarify.

I don't think the correct key has been verified.

My truck is back to running but still having issues with check engine light coming on and tach dropping off and coming back. Throwing codes P0336 and 1690

P0336 (M) Crankshaft Position (CKP) Sensor Signal - Problem with voltage signal from CKP.

P1690 (M) Fuel Injection Pump CKP Sensor Does Not Agree With ECM CKP Sensor - Problem in fuel sync signal. Possible injection pump timing problem. Low power, engine derated, or engine stops

I think that if the cause of Code P0336 is repaired, then the Code P1690 will go away. Not certain about this, but that is where I would put my focus.

- John

 

[farrier]

It can with a programmer or something like an Edge box, can't it? Didn't she say she had something on the truck at one time?

Has she verified she has the correct key on the pump?

I don`t know what the key is. I am taking the truck in tomorrow to have the FASS fuel line replaced as it was leaking. I`m having a garage that works on pretty much just the diesels and he did mention something about a key on the pump. I don`t what`s involved to figure this out and since I don`t know I can`t confirm. I`m hoping these guys can reveal something there. As always I appreciate your input!

 

[farrier]

Thanks John! As I replied to Scott I`m taking it into a diesel shop tomorrow to have the FASS fuel line replaced. My mechanic said it was pretty sad looking and he fixed the end where it was leaking. The guy mentioned something about a key with the VP44 in regards to timing. I have no idea on how to check that so I`ll be at their mercy. Wondered if it`s much of a job. Also thank you for posting my timeline again for me. I`ll have to take some time to add the latest fixes.