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Heat woes continue...

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Brakes

Is this a TIPM issue?

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After warming up to 34°, I bit the bullet and went out in the rain to flush the core another time. I disconnected the hoses and flushed back and forth about 5 times. Then I connected to the outlet side and just let the water run while I replaced the t-stat. It looked aftermarket and nowhere as beefy as the Cummins part. That might have been the easiest t-stat replacement I've ever done. Once I buttoned that all up I went back to the core and flushed back and forth a few more times. Water was running clear in both directions with no visible loss of pressure on either side.

Next, I topped off the radiator and started the truck. Using a stick between the pedal and the seat I bumped the RPM's up to about 12 for 5 minutes or so. Topped the radiator off again, put the cap on, and took her for a ride. Heat was fair and kept getting better as the truck temp came up. Once it approached normal, the heat was certainly better than warm but still not as hot as I think it should be. There is a drastic improvement over what it was but I'm hedging my bet for now since it is in the mid 30's.

While I was riding around, I stopped at the parts store and picked up a new radiator cap as the seal on the old one had a serious indentation all the around. Drove home and carefully removed the cap to install the new one. While it was off, and with the truck at operating temperature, I looked into the radiator but could not see any real movement of the coolant making me wonder if in fact I do have a water pump problem. There certainly seems to be a flow problem. At a minimum I think the system needs a complete flush and refill. Unfortunately, that needs to wait until spring unless we get a decent warm spell with some advance notice.

For now I'll just see how the heat performs and whether or not there's any real improvement. Temps will dip down to the high 20's/low 30's over the next couple of days. We'll see what to coming week brings.

Thanks to everyone for the tips and advice thus far, and for putting up with my barrage of questions.
 
Do you have the ability to high idle using your cruise control buttons? I've heard many conflicting reports on the 03's. I've seen the feature on the 04's though.
 
If the temperature/pressure is low enough that you can open the radiator cap with the engine running then there shouldn't be any flow. With the thermostat closed there is zero flow thru the radiator, but the heater core still gets full flow.

If you want to check flow then add a section of clear hose to the heater core line for testing purposes.

You mentioned the heater core return temp was 180°, that seems too high to me and indicates that you're not getting much airflow over the heater core and that would be a blend door issue, or a blocked heater core.

As far as air temperature if I run my fan on 3 or 4 before the motor gets hot the heat/motor take a LOT longer to make heat. If I wait until I am up to temp and the thermostat has cycled I can get descent heat on 3 and 4, but 4 needs a good load to keep heat flowing. It's just the cold blooded nature of these trucks. Even in sub zero temps I rarely put the fan above 2 and then it's generally only when defrost is needed or the kids are in the back seat and cold. With a winter front on with 3/4 flaps closed and normal driving it takes my truck anywhere from 10-12 miles for the thermostat to open with the ambient temp anywhere from -10° to 20°. Since I don't drive it regularly I rarely plug it in, but when I do it takes 6-12 miles for the thermostat to open. Mine is a little more cold blooded than most with a coolant filter, larger cam, and freer flowing turbo.
 
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If the temperature/pressure is low enough that you can open the radiator cap with the engine running then there shouldn't be any flow. With the thermostat closed there is zero flow thru the radiator, but the heater core still gets full flow.
That was after 30 minutes of driving and the temp gauge showing normal operating temp. If that doesn't open the thermostat, what does?

If you want to check flow then add a section of clear hose to the heater core line for testing purposes.
I wanted to do that today but it was raining and too cold to do much more than what I did.

You mentioned the heater core return temp was 180°, that seems too high to me and indicates that you're not getting much airflow over the heater core and that would be a blend door issue, or a blocked heater core.
I'm not convinced that my infrared thermometer is close to being accurate. It's been giving readings all over the place.

As far as air temperature if I run my fan on 3 or 4 before the motor gets hot the heat/motor take a LOT longer to make heat. If I wait until I am up to temp and the thermostat has cycled I can get descent heat on 3 and 4, but 4 needs a good load to keep heat flowing. It's just the cold blooded nature of these trucks.
I understand these trucks take longer to warm up to operating temp. The other day, after driving for an hour or so, the heat would simply wash out (go cool) on fan 3 or 4. This afternoon there was very little wash out on 4 and almost none noticeable on 3.
 
That was after 30 minutes of driving and the temp gauge showing normal operating temp. If that doesn't open the thermostat, what does?

You would be surprised at how little the radiator is used when its cold out. It takes minimal heat to create pressure in the radiator, so if you can open it there isn't any.

What are you using for a winter radiator cover?

In terms of operating temp, the standard Cummins 190° thermostat cracks at 190° ± 3° and isn't fully open until 207°. I have found that cruising in the winter with the OEM winter front and 3/4 flaps closed yields me coolant temps around 191-192° and they drop to 185-187° during any descent deceleration/coast and it doesn't take long to drop to 180° which is where it sits. Without a winter front cruise temps are 189-191° and it drops to 180° during any descent deceleration/coast. It will sit at 170-180° if it's quite cold out.

I'm not convinced that my infrared thermometer is close to being accurate. It's been giving readings all over the place.

I understand these trucks take longer to warm up to operating temp. The other day, after driving for an hour or so, the heat would simply wash out (go cool) on fan 3 or 4. This afternoon there was very little wash out on 4 and almost none noticeable on 3.

What about getting a small thermometer to put in the vents and monitor outlet temperature.



Have you verified your clutch fan is disengaging?
 
What are you using for a winter radiator cover?
I've got the Mopar OEM winter cover.

What about getting a small thermometer to put in the vents and monitor outlet temperature.
On my list for after the holidays.

Have you verified your clutch fan is disengaging?
I did notice that the fan was turning slowly this afternoon while the truck was warming up. It shouldn't engage until the temps come up, correct?
 
The fan will always spin, but usually only 300-700 rpms at cold idle.
It definitely was not spinning with the engine... it was much slower.

I'm still confused about the t-stat. After 30 minutes of driving in 34° temp with the front cover closed completely and the gauge reading normal (just below 200°), wouldn't the t-stat have opened by then causing the water pump to push coolant to the radiator? And just to clarify, when I cracked the radiator cap the radiator did "burp" as if it were pressurized, but the coolant certainly wasn't as hot as I thought it should be (using the "finger in the fluid" method ;) ).
 
The fan sounds normal, and certainly not locked.

The radiator sounds normal too. The cooling system is huge. I don’t recommend 4 closed above 0° thou. The intake temp gets high and turns the fan on.
 
It definitely was not spinning with the engine... it was much slower.

I'm still confused about the t-stat. After 30 minutes of driving in 34° temp with the front cover closed completely and the gauge reading normal (just below 200°), wouldn't the t-stat have opened by then causing the water pump to push coolant to the radiator? And just to clarify, when I cracked the radiator cap the radiator did "burp" as if it were pressurized, but the coolant certainly wasn't as hot as I thought it should be (using the "finger in the fluid" method ;) ).



You will have to hook the truck to something heavy to get that thermostat to open this time of year. You can’t drive it hard enough empty to flow much coolant through that radiator. That’s why the right thermostat is critical...if it’s not shut tight cold water is constantly creeping by...
 
I don’t recommend 4 closed above 0° thou. The intake temp gets high and turns the fan on.
I'm still trying to figure out what the truck needs from the winter cover. I've noticed that above 30° cause the fan to run more once she's warmed up. I will open a flap tomorrow and see what difference that makes.
 
You will have to hook the truck to something heavy to get that thermostat to open this time of year.
I'm carrying almost 800 lbs of ballast for the plow in the bed, and when the white stuff is in the forecast she wear's an 8-1/2 Western Pro Plow at almost 700 lbs. I know, that's nowhere need heavy enough for these CTD's but that's all I got.

You can’t drive it hard enough empty to flow much coolant through that radiator. That’s why the right thermostat is critical...if it’s not shut tight cold water is constantly creeping by...
It will be interesting to see what the new Cummins t-stat does (if I'll even be able to notice it).

Maybe I need to start parking her unless it snows? The problem is I love this truck and want to drive it!

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You should see a difference but I am still concerned about other things.
A plugged heater core usually sucks all the time and does not change its heat output. The exception to that is loaded trucks because you are going slower and the water temp is higher when working the engine, climbing big grades, etc...many times that would be the only chance you had to get warm all day...:D
 
You should see a difference but I am still concerned about other things.
A plugged heater core usually sucks all the time and does not change its heat output. The exception to that is loaded trucks because you are going slower and the water temp is higher when working the engine, climbing big grades, etc...many times that would be the only chance you had to get warm all day...:D

Is it time for my "it's the control head programming" comment yet? I've been good and haven't brought it back up in a couple of days. :)
 
You should see a difference but I am still concerned about other things.
A plugged heater core usually sucks all the time and does not change its heat output. The exception to that is loaded trucks because you are going slower and the water temp is higher when working the engine, climbing big grades, etc...many times that would be the only chance you had to get warm all day...:D
Flushing the core made a noticeable difference today just as it did a few weeks ago. Maybe the new t-stat will help, or maybe the system needs a good flush.

Not sure if I've mentioned this yet but the coolant appears to be the normal green stuff so someone flushed & refilled before I got it. I want to put the proper HOAT coolant back in.

I know... I should've taken care of this stuff before the cold set in, but life always seems to get in the way. If I don't get my kitchen remodel done soon, I'll be living in that cold truck... ;)

Thanks again to everyone for all the help. I hope y'all have a great holiday. Merry Christmas!
 
Is it time for my "it's the control head programming" comment yet? I've been good and haven't brought it back up in a couple of days. :)
It's a valid point, and something I have checked, but I really don't think it applies in this case. If it turns out I'm wrong I'll let you pick out the crow for me. Fair enough? ;)
 
It's a valid point, and something I have checked, but I really don't think it applies in this case. If it turns out I'm wrong I'll let you pick out the crow for me. Fair enough? ;)

Fair enough. And I swear I'm not one of those I told you so kind of people. Just having been there many times over the years, I really want to help you get this fixed with as little effort as possible.
 
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