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HELP, I think my truck, inject. pump, lift pump is dead, please help!!!

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I have a question for all you diesel guys. I filled up fuel after work last Friday and drain a little fuel out of my fuel canister to get any water out. Well after fueling I went to start my truck and it started just fine, but it only when out 15-20 feet (about into the highway) and stalled and no matter what I did the truck would not start. I tried priming the pump 2-3 times by bumping the started with no luck, I also noticed I could not heard my lift pump anymore like usual. Anyway after cranking for 10-15 seconds twice in a row and 3 seperate times I would just crank for eternity if I let it and would not even attempt to fire even one cylinder. While cranking nothing was out of ordinary (no smoke, no drag, no whatever). After my brother got to the fuel station to pick me up and drop off some tools to check a few things we pulled the fuel filter to make sure there was fuel in there and it was full, we tried to bled some air out of the system with the bled screw (thanks to another TDR members help), we checked the fuses with none being blown, cycled the ingition 3 times and no error code came up in the odometer window (it showed P DONE). I got mad and finally took it to the dealer to look at it and after running diagonstics with the DRB the only thing they came up with and said right on the order "THE MAP SENSOR VOLT IS TOO LOW, RAN TEST 1-9 OF THE DIAGNOSTIC MANUAL - BELIEVE THE PERFORMANCE CHIP TOOK OUT THE INJECTION PUMP". So they indicated that it will cost me now $3500 plus labor to fix, and they said it is not cover under warranty because of the fueling box (stupid me forgot to take it off first after a long day of getting it somewhere). I just wish I could hit myself in the head with a baseball bat and wake up and notice it was only a dream, but I don't think that is going to happen. So now I am thinking about buying the pump from Cummins directly after they check it to make sure it is the pump.

So my question is what do you guys think is wrong with my baby from what I indicated from my problem above and prior to this incident my truck had never once falled to start at the click of the key nor has my mileage ever dropped out of normal, nor ever loss any power, nor ever smoke badly (not that it is bad too do). I have only use the fueling box a total of maybe 3500 miles total and ask anybody that knows me I do not hot-rod my truck and nore do I abuse it in anyway and it just makes me so mad that this could happen when I take care of it soo well. I am starting to think that my old V-10 was far more reliable as it went 35,000 miles without a single glitch.

So do youn guys thinks its the injection pump, lift pump, fouled Map sensor (I did add a Amsoil air filter that may of had a little to much oil although I did blot it the best I could).

Sorry for the long post but I had to blow my vent a little and thanks ya all.

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2001 2500HD Quad Cab SLT SB 4x4, HO Cummins, 6-speed, 3. 55 gears, LSD, brightwhite/driftwood, 4w ABS, camper and trailer tow packages, HD transfer case, snow plow prep, group, cab lights, Isspro Boost and Pyrometer gauges mounted on A-pillar, 4" JRE exhaust, BD exhaust brake. 27100 miles and counting as of 1/16/01.

1980 CJ-5, Modified for off-road use, bobbed fenders, 350 TBI, NP435 trans, 4. 56 gears, Dana 300, Dana 44 front, Dana 60 reverse-cut rear axle, ARB air lockers front and rear, 15/35/15 Super Swamper TSL on 10X15 steel rims, Cobra CB, Warn 9000I winch, nerf bars, 1/4" steel rock crawler bumper front and rear, jerri can/spare tire rack, custom roll cage.

[This message has been edited by Douglas Hatfield (edited 01-22-2001). ]
 
<font color=blue>First off what dealer did you take it to? Second off Injection pump will only be $1200 if thats whats wrong, don't buy it from Cummins or Dodge, let me know if you need one. More then likely its the lift pump tho. I would get a 2nd dealer opinion. You know I run my PE Ðamn near 24/7 since its been put on and I do not "Baby" my truck at all and I am running strong to this day 13,900 miles. I only turn it off if it is snowing out and as soon as I see dry pavement its right back on again.

I would go after the lift pump first before ya get carried away with the injection pump.

If the Map sensor voltage is low then what does that have to do with your injection pump???????

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[This message has been edited by KatDiesel (edited 01-22-2001). ]
 
Well I took my truck to good old Woodhouse in Blair. And yes I got a quote from Cummins and they said the pump would cost $1200 as you stated and I did that because I would be stupid to pay Dodge price as that pump better be made out of 14 karat gold or diamands to be at the price. Yes I will let you know what the vertict is. And I thank you for getting me the pump, but I have one main problem 1)I know I can't instal it myself as I will defineatly be messed up 2)I really don't know who would be willing that is near by to our area 3)I can only do it Saturday or weekend as that is when my brother is off work so he can to my truck with his Chevy gasser (man I hate that). And I am totatally with you Kat I don't see how it could be my injection pump I am mostly leaning to the lift pump, but I talked to the dealer and they said they tested it and it tested okay and I have know idea about what a MAP sensor has to do with the injection pump that is what they stated on my small bill. And yes I know you and a lot of other people run these a lot more than me and that is the other reason why I think it is something else, but I don't know what which is the main reason I posted was to get other peoples ideas what it could be if they had a similar problem with there pumps or electronics. And yes I am pushing the lift pump issuse as that is what I personally believe it is. But I do not know beans about diesel other than I put the key in and go.
 
<font color=blue>First off who is the service adviser your talking to? Is your truck still there at the dealership? Think I will call and ask a few questions myself..... was gonna have some minor things looked at anyhow, I'll leave my PE on but I am gonna take out the fuse thats in the wire to the pump sooooo regardless what level it is their ain't now extra fuel! Hehe

Did you ask them what your fuel pressure was before the fuel filter and then after the filter? And then also at the injection pump???

Sorry to hear of your troubles with the truck tho. If I can help ya in any way give me a call.
 
They tested the lift pump and it was OK? So did it start then?

I sent you an email on it; if it's not priming it's the lift pump -- so apparently it primed for them.

Here's a question for anyone who had an injection pump go toes up -- what are the symptoms? Failure to start? Seems to me it would still start -- and it wouldn't go all at once either. I. e. you'd see a performance degradation first.

Doug: I'll send you my email address at work via private email.

Get the parts together -- between Kat, me, and anyone else in the Omaha gang we'll get that rig running again. And if not that -- have Cummins do it. Dodge won't honor the warranty anyway; may as well have someone who knows what they're doing fix it. Wouldn't be bad to get a second opinion via Cummins regardless.



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Big MAK
98. 5 ISB 5spd 4x4 Quad Cab 3500, 275s and Original PowerMax
A "WARRANTY FREE" ZONE
https://www.turbodieseltrucks.com
 
Did you remove any add-ons completely? If one of the signals is being lost enroute to the computer (split/loose wire, unplugged map sensor) it could be telling the system not to start.

One of the things I did when trouble shooting was to thoroughly inspect the wiring harness for the box, and use dielectric grease at all exposed or partially exposed connections to insure good contact.
 
Originally posted by Mark Kitchell:
Did you remove any add-ons completely? If one of the signals is being lost enroute to the computer (split/loose wire, unplugged map sensor) it could be telling the system not to start.
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I believe he left everything on the truck, but I could be wrong. I too am curious how come there is no mention of the lift pump in their diagnosis. Also has the PE been removed and attempted to start the truck?

I'll see what the best price on a Injection Pump I can come up with, but $1200 sounds about right. Also I think the lift pump from Cummins is around $130.

Also just as a precaution, take a sample of your fuel and have it analyzed by a lab. Also send off an oil sample. We can't move much further until ya find out from the dealer if they checked your fuel pressures before the injection pump, reason I say this is you don't hear your lift pump anymore like you said you used to.

Don't get too worried..... yet #ad
 
Yes Woodhouse did say that they check the pressure before and after the lift pump which was 14-15 PSI. And I am getting a 2nd opinion by taking over to Cummin Great Plains in Omaha this weekend and have them check into it. Yes everything on the PE is left as is I did not touch nothing. I agree I would not think the injection pump would poop out all at once as it acted normal even to the start before it stalled. I talk to the dealer and they ran a diagnostics and checked a few things but on the bill is says they believe key word is believe which leads me to think they are not sure either. And yes the truck is at the dealer still until at least Saturday as I don't have a truck to pull my truck and trailer on. And thats Mark and Kat for will to help me out on my problems I would we can get it going again.
 
Doug: Count me in to provide whatever help you need and I can provide. This did happen to me once on a trip and it was a plugged fuel filter after some bad fuel, but maybe you are beyond that. Gene
 
I had an injection pump failure.
The truck was running great, my son went to the store while we were out of town and 2 hours later he came back saying he had trouble getting it started.
It had died when he drove up.
Bottom line I tried to make it home and it would die at every stop and got harder to start each time.
I finally made it to my dealer who was closed on saturday (service dept. )
could not get it started again.
Monday they diagnosed the injector pump and quoted $3,200. 00.
I called Cummins and picked up the pump for $1,400. 00. My dealer installed it for $ 280. 00.
That was about 40,000 miles ago.

FWIW. My dealer is 130 miles from home so I bought my wife a 2K1 3500 so that I could get my cows home #ad



Jeff


[This message has been edited by Huntmastr1 (edited 01-23-2001). ]
 
Kat, what do you mean don't get the pump from Dodge (I would never do that) or from Cummins, I thought those are the only two places you can get them or do you know something that I don't?

Evan Beck, you said that you got a code out of your truck. I do not know if that is the same as if you cycled the ignition on the newer ones, but it said there was nothing there unless the DRB can grab more codes.

Anyway I am not really liking what I am hearing. I will be getting my second opinion its scheduled at Cummins Great Plain in Omaha this Saturday to look at it to see what it is. Now my next question is Mark, Lurch, Kat Gene or whoever is near my area know how to install fuel pressure gauges and where I can get some fast, I want to start monitoring my fuel pressure from now on. If I ordered the gauges can someone please help me install them in my truck as I am one of the lest mechanically inclined person you will ever know? I think I am also think of ditching the fueling box and leaving it stock or maybe some baby injectors.

I will keep you all posted on what I find out Saturday.

[This message has been edited by Douglas Hatfield (edited 01-23-2001). ]
 
Doug,

You need a DRB scan tool to get the codes out of the ECM. This may shed some light on what is going on. Other DTC's may have been set as well, so look out. #ad
 
Dogh, a standstill fuel pressure test is worthless. You need to have a driving fuel pressure test performed, as this measures the pressure in a real-world manner.

Sounds as though your problem is the injection pump. There's probabyl a DTC in your ECM that says "Injection Pump Timing Failure. " That is what happened to my '98. 5. Funny how yours did it right after filling up. Mine did the exact same thing. Was able to get it going again, but took nearly 2 hours or cranking. The problem got progressively worse over the next 2 weeks.

Get the new VP44 from Cummins. Best price around. It is an easy install, and I am sure you could do it yourself. Takes about 3 hours from start to finish. Only simple tools are needed, with the exception of a gear puller. If you need any tips/hints, email me. #ad
 
I wouldn't be too worried about the power box -- seems if it was going to fail it will regardless of whether you have a box. Of-course the bad thing about having a box is GermanCo will use it as an excuse not to warranty the repair.

As you'all know, I'm running quite a bit of power and fuel and have done so in extreme conditions for extended periods of time and I'm still on my original injector pump at 70,000+ miles (knock on wood). I did put a new lift pump in when the original started making a noise it didn't used to (preventative maintenance).

I still run my box almost all the time (except when the weathers cold) but I have put smaller injectors (275s) in to eliminate smoke and because I decided "long life" was more important then "go insanely fast #ad
".

Doug: know anyone with a flatbed we can borrow to get your truck to Cummins for a test?



------------------
Big MAK
98. 5 ISB 5spd 4x4 Quad Cab 3500, 275s and Original PowerMax
A "WARRANTY FREE" ZONE
https://www.turbodieseltrucks.com
 
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