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Help--vw Tdi Owners

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4 Wheel Jamboree - Indianapolis

With the high gas prices today,and they always go up and we will see more in the future, I want to buy a VW TDI. Any of you TDR members who have experience with them ,give me the good & bad facts. The VW dealers are hard to talk to when you wan't a diesel. If you talk gassers you can't get away. Evidently the TDI models are in short supply, at least in Tucson. I am willing to travel out of state if necessary. Also the only dealer in Town won't cut any prices, only offers 1. 9% financeing on some models. Has anybody been able to get any cash discounts? Also need info on reliability, service requirements, actul fuel milage,quality control and dealer expertise. I see they are assembeled in Mexico any I have no problems with that as my DC was built there. I will appreciate any info you can provide. Thanks.

Royal
 
IMHO, the VW TDI’s are the best kept secret in North America. My wife and I purchased a New Beetle TDI in March of this year. It has marvelous low end torque and laughs at hills. The AC is ice cold and has no impact on performance. We average around 48 MPG with mixed 65-75mph highway and 80mph freeway driving. The Jettas and Golfs will average slightly higher MPG since they are more aerodynamic. This is with a five-speed. The automatics get around 42 MPG.

There are some things the cars have I take issue with:



1. Cooled EGR. This system takes exhaust from the pre-turbo area of the exhaust manifold and pipes it through a cooled manifold and enters the intake downstream of the intercooler. The EGR valve can be defeated, but it is difficult to prevent the ECM from seeing this because it increase the total air flow across the mass air flow sensor. The best way to defeat the EGR is by changing the air flow demand value in the ECM using a computer program called VAG-COM. This keeps the EGR valve closed without triggering a check engine light and fault code.



2. Closed Crankcase Ventilation. The crankcase blowby gases are routed directly into the intake airstream upstream of the turbo. These oily vapors contaminate the compressor and intercooler, then they combine with the soot entering the intake air stream from the cooled EGR. This forms, over time, a carbonaceous, clogging mess that is difficult to clean up. This can be avoided by routing the blowby overboard, like the Cummins.



3. Timing belt. Keeps the engine noise down, but requires periodic changing. Current models have the longer 100K mile change interval. It is very expensive to have this done at the dealership. It can be done by the do-it yourselfer.



Sorry for the long post. I paid $600 over invoice for mine at a dealership in Sandy, UT.
 
We bought a 2002 jetta tdi right here in fairfield. They have another low mile repo. it has 10,000 miles, loaded to the hilt. about 16,000.



I chose the used low miles over the new because there is no dickering on new ones. Ours had 4,200 miles on the clock.



Wife loves it.



The issues about the cooled egr, and blowby gases have been stated, and can be tamed.



They are able to be hopped up as well.



As Riflesmith stated, They are a best kept secret.



Go get one.
 
have had my 03 TDI jetta wagon 5 speed since the day after last christmas, ordered it plain (GL model) for $400 UNDER sticker. Now I have 30,600 miles on it and it has been the best new car (100% defect free) I have ever owned. It IS the best kept secret in north america, the fuel savings alone make the payment if you put enough down payment. It is also safe, 5 star crash rated. I will agree that there are issues on the web page but no different than what is posted here about Dodge or Cumings. I own 8 other vehicles but I get the biggest kick out of the little 90 H. P. engine and pass everyone on the hills! We go everywhere in it. I feel we are doing something very positive about foreign oil dependence drving this car and that makes me also feel this is good for the environment. Stick to opinions from those that actually own and drive them one of them and you will not be deterred from getting one of your own.
 
I bought a '99 Golf new and put about 120K on it. I don't own it any more. I drove 55K/year. It served me well. It wasn't without it's problems, but I used it pretty hard. The power is impressive and can be easily turned up(through chipping). I blocked my EGR the first week I owned it. Got over 50 mpg with highway driving, 65-75 MPH. I ran it on Biodiesel without any problems. I'd buy another one in a second, if i needed another car.

Joe
 
VW TDI Owners

Ditto. My 2001 New Bettle TDI 5spd. is awesome. 80- 90 mph on I-10 all day long @ 45+ mpg. No problems wind, rain ,weather ,etc.

Like I said all day long.
 
I would like one for a dingy to retrieve motorhomes. However I cannot get anyone to tell me if they can be flat towed?
 
Thanks eveybody for your factual replies. It looks like you are all happy with the TDI. The crankcase breather seems like a must do item, or the turbo and intake would surely be a mess. It seems to me the 5 speed transmission is the one to have if you can shift gears. I am going to start searching state wide in AZ. first for a good low mile used car. In AZ if you buy from a private party (no dealer) you dont have to pay sales tax. Do any of you know if there is going to be any changes on the new 2004 MY. If so where can I find the info? Have you seen the new TOURAGE VW. They start at 40K,and they look great-340 HP V 8 engine.

Royal
 
Wife just committed on a 99 Jetta TDI today! Buying it from my son's business who bought it at auction several months ago and has not been able to sell it.

So the '99 2. 0 L gasser which is in immaculate shape by the way, is going on the lawn for sale on monday!!! (not intended to be an advertisement)



So, I guess I'll be checking out the TDI clubs to get my bombing list together.



Jay
 
Originally posted by Riflesmith

IMHO, the VW TDI’s are the best kept secret in North America. My wife and I purchased a New Beetle TDI in March of this year. It has marvelous low end torque and laughs at hills. The AC is ice cold and has no impact on performance. We average around 48 MPG with mixed 65-75mph highway and 80mph freeway driving. The Jettas and Golfs will average slightly higher MPG since they are more aerodynamic. This is with a five-speed. The automatics get around 42 MPG.

There are some things the cars have I take issue with:



1. Cooled EGR. This system takes exhaust from the pre-turbo area of the exhaust manifold and pipes it through a cooled manifold and enters the intake downstream of the intercooler. The EGR valve can be defeated, but it is difficult to prevent the ECM from seeing this because it increase the total air flow across the mass air flow sensor. The best way to defeat the EGR is by changing the air flow demand value in the ECM using a computer program called VAG-COM. This keeps the EGR valve closed without triggering a check engine light and fault code.



2. Closed Crankcase Ventilation. The crankcase blowby gases are routed directly into the intake airstream upstream of the turbo. These oily vapors contaminate the compressor and intercooler, then they combine with the soot entering the intake air stream from the cooled EGR. This forms, over time, a carbonaceous, clogging mess that is difficult to clean up. This can be avoided by routing the blowby overboard, like the Cummins.



3. Timing belt. Keeps the engine noise down, but requires periodic changing. Current models have the longer 100K mile change interval. It is very expensive to have this done at the dealership. It can be done by the do-it yourselfer.



Sorry for the long post. I paid $600 over invoice for mine at a dealership in Sandy, UT.



A good post, sums up most things but not entirely accurate. The EGR is equally or MORE responsible for the intake clogging than the CCV. Either running the EGR by itself or the CCV by itself is fine. It's the COMBINATION of the sooty EGR exhaust and the oily CCV mist/vapor that form the hard carbon. That said, I still modified both on mine:D .



The check engine light that results from removing or disconnecting it can EASILY be defeated. It's called an EPS device, and installs in 5 minutes. I did this to my TDI, and it was smooth sailing(clean intake) since. I can point you in the right direction if you want one of these devices, but be aware these are for 'off road' use only, as modifying emissions equipment is illegal. ;)



Jetta's and Golfs might be slightly more aerodynamic than the beetle, but the beetle has slightly different gearing. They all get similarly good MPGS.



Commonly known TDI problems - POS MAF sensors that WILL go bad, window regulators, weak clutches, and tons of rattles. If you can live with those, they are great little cars. The clutch is only a problem if you start modifying it. 2000. 5+ TDI's switched from a LUK to a Sachs clutch, which only has a holding strength of 200 lb/ft of torque. Stock TDI's make 155lbs, but a chip puts it right near or over 200, depending which model you go with, causing slip.



Timing belts are only do-able by the do it yourselfer if you have SIGNIFICANT mechanical skills and tools - not for the shade tree mechanic who does oil and filter changes... . beware!



Lastly, a/c DOES have a major drag on performance, Riflesmith must be floating in ignorant TDI bliss!!! ;) Try running at a constant speed, say 2000rpm in first gear, and click on the a/c. WOW, what a drag. The mpg suffers as well... this is clearly evidenced with VAG-COM..... if you don't believe me, go to the fields where it shows fuel consumption, and injection quantity at idle, and turn your a/c on and off... . the extra fuel draw is significant - about 2mpg. Then again, when you get 50mpg, who cares if you get 48!!!:cool:



I would however, recommend TDI's to anyone who wants a high efficiency, comfortable, and surprisingly peppy commuter. I will say, stock 90hp TDI's are way too slow for my taste/patience. Before I chipped mine, I had to floor it to keep up with the grannies in their crown vic's and town cars down here, they really step on it. The chips are usually swappable, I'd put the stock chip back in when I took it to the stealership, and it is PAINFUL to drive a stock TDI. Beware - 0-60mph on a 5spd is about 10 seconds, and autos are around 12 seconds... . The torque fools you because it feels fast, but they are slow as hell. Once you set them up right, they are fun. I highly recommend Dieselgeek's short shift 'race' kit. I had it on my tdi, really shortens the throws, and you can hit 5th with your arm still on the armrest:D :D
 
Originally posted by LightmanE300

A good post, sums up most things but not entirely accurate. The EGR is equally or MORE responsible for the intake clogging than the CCV. Either running the EGR by itself or the CCV by itself is fine. It's the COMBINATION of the sooty EGR exhaust and the oily CCV mist/vapor that form the hard carbon. That said, I still modified both on mine:D .



Lastly, a/c DOES have a major drag on performance, Riflesmith must be floating in ignorant TDI bliss!!! ;) Try running at a constant speed, say 2000rpm in first gear, and click on the a/c. WOW, what a drag. The mpg suffers as well... this is clearly evidenced with VAG-COM..... if you don't believe me, go to the fields where it shows fuel consumption, and injection quantity at idle, and turn your a/c on and off... . the extra fuel draw is significant - about 2mpg. Then again, when you get 50mpg, who cares if you get 48!!!:cool:



Lightman,

Normally, I like to think of myself as thick skinned. However, your comments demand a response. Regarding the buildup in the intake manifold, you obviously did not completely read my post. If you had you would have read the following:



These oily vapors contaminate the compressor and intercooler, then they combine with the soot entering the intake air stream from the cooled EGR. This forms, over time, a carbonaceous, clogging mess that is difficult to clean up. This can be avoided by routing the blowby overboard, like the Cummins.



I think that sums it up rather nicely. Which part of it did you miss?



Next you said I must be floating around in "TDI ignorant bliss" regarding A/C's effect on these cars. I stand by what I said and if your car fell on its face under the circumstances you describe, your engine must have had lack of power issues. Mine delivered a consistent 48 to 50MPG all summer(with 40+ days of 100 degree daytime highs). We don't baby it either. It is hardly ever under 75MPH.



Before you go on the attack, you may want to make sure "your" facts match "the" facts.
 
Boy is someone defensive!:rolleyes: I was just trying to help and clarify. I didn't think being thick skinned was necessary, my post was in no way to discredit your info, just clarify and expand. .



You are correct about the intake clogging issue, I guess I didn't see you were making the distinction of the combination of egr/ccv. I stand corrected. . ;) Either way, we're both correct about the nasty intake clogging. The check engine light however, is easy to fix.



Maybe ignorant bliss was interpreted as being harsh, and inaccurate... however many owners are so happy with their vehicles they tend to overlook some of the small downsides... such as a slight loss in performance with a/c on. Talk to Joe Oleary on the TDICLUB, he'll tell you that his quarter mile times are slower with a/c on... And no, my car didn't fall flat on it's face, but was certainly slower with a/c on. . Maybe some are better at telling minute differences in performance than others... . I drove my TDI 1200 miles per week, so I was pretty used to it. Vag-com doesn't lie - and that's a fact. When your injection quantity increases significantly with turning on A/C, that is certainly taking away potential power and mpg. What was that you were saying about FACTS??? Vag-com doesn't lie...



I think we can both agree however, the TDI is a great vehicle, and I would certainly recommend it to anyone. :cool:
 
FYI:



I took my intercooler out and found it it only had a little bit of oil residue in it.



This was after running ~100k miles with ZERO modifications... .



It won't get oily anymore. :cool:



Also - My car is doggy with the A/C on - Deo's '01 Golf TDI has nearly zero loss in power..... he's chipped, I'm not.



Matt
 
LOL, stock TDI's are doggy all the time. Mine had I'd say an equally proportionate loss with either stock or wett chip. To anyone getting a TDI, CHIP IT, DON'T WAIT!!!!! The driveability is night and day. HH you're right, the intercoolers really don't get that dirty, its just the intake, and EGR valve that get so caked. Part of the reason your intercooler may have been relatively cleaner though, is you may not have overfilled your oil. Word is that when the oil is very full or overfilled, much more blowby/ccv oil/mist is generated. Of course, using a CI-4 rated oil will help minimize these problems.



This is almost as debated as oil wars, but I'd highly recommend the wetterauer chip. It's SLIGHTLY milder than Upsolute, and is a little more clutch friendly. The torque peak is a bit higher, and doesn't have the boost spikes that upsolute does. The difference is 118 vs 120hp, hardly noticeable, and the wett power curve is smoother. The ups chip exceeds the 200ft/lb torque limit of the clutch and will slip it soon. If you want to build an all out modded tdi, get a european TDI ECU, and the . 205 injectors... . then you'll be at the base level of a Euro TDI, 110hp. Then from that point, you can put a euro chip in, and watch out!!! Much more power, smoother delivery, and less smoke than doing it the north american ECU route. Either way, if you do more than a wett chip, expect to upgrade clutches!!!
 
"All-out" modified TDI's have mechanical injection pumps. :cool:



I have ridden shotgun in one (1. 6L IDI / with insane fueling pump)that blew almost as much smoke as my Dodge. :cool:



Matt
 
I bought my 99 Golf TDI new, and drove it 51,000 miles/year for 36 months. I drove it a bit with the AC on, and while it does slow it down a bit, it really wasn't all that bad. Certainly not bad enough to mention it as a problem to a potential new owner. All the other problems, like wheel bearings, squeaks, rattles, power window regulators and other petty stuff like that deserve more attention.

I ran nothing but Delvac-1. My oil analysis were OK.

I cleaned my intercooler at 100K. just a little oil there. My intake never got dirty because I never ran the EGR.

I never chipped it, but drove a few other chipped cars. They're faster for sure, but I was happy with the performance of mine. I don't think I'd call them doggy, but everybody has to be their own judge on that one...

Joe
 
Joe, you are right, I think I was responding more to the claim that a/c didn't hamper performance at all, rather than it being a problem. Didn't mean to give that impression. A/C doesn't make any significant drop in performance, it's slight.



D1 is awesome! My oil analysis results were outstanding, but I also had an oilguard bypass filter and a larger oil cooler, no egr or ccv... .



Did you run b100 in it? I ran b100 for 30k miles, then switched to b20 after prices got crazy... .



VW has owned up to the window regulators... . they will cover them for up to 10 yrs. . I got a letter... .
 
Hi Lightman,

I ran homebrew B100 for 40-50K in that car before I sold it. The only time I cut the fuel was when it got cold out and the fuel would start to cloud up. I had an Isuzu P'up at the time that had a heated dual fuel system. When it got real cold out I drove the Isuzu. Petro Diesel in one tank, B100 in the heated one. I've got a similar setup in my current VW, and I'm switching to SVO(straight Vegetable Oil) in that one in the next month or so. I've just got to finish TIGging my aluminum tank together for the oil. I've got all the other parts ready to go.



Joe
 
Nice work. Sounds similar to the greasel kit. Congrats on running so many miles on a domestic, renewable, recycled fuel!! Feels nice to give a big middle finger to foreign oil doesn't it?
 
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