How did DC 'detune' the 24V to 215HP?

[Papa Joe]

MikeR is right. And, I think its only the injectors (no timing). I think my dually( #ad
) would have matched a stick on hp if both had 275s.
Let's go one further, guys. How does the HO get 245 hp over the 5-spd with 235 hp? Is it the turbo wastegate setup? Just curious...
Joe

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White 2001 QuadCab 2500 Laramie SLT, HO 6-speed, 3. 54 limited slip, Mopar exhaust brake, towing/camper options, Rhino liner, Grover Air Horns (not yet installed), Un BOMBed (so far), DUAL AIR BAGS !!

[This message has been edited by Papa Joe (edited 02-24-2001). ]

 

[Shelby Griggs]

Originally posted by C1B1DIESEL:
The 215,235,&245 hp engine use same injectors, trust me on that

Issue 31 Page 30 indicates that the 245 (ETH) injectors are different.

Shelby



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2001. 5 2500 QC LB 4WD, ETH (Built 09-10-00), DEE, 3. 54 gears, Laramie SLT, Camper Special, Trailer Tow, Travel Convenience Group, Power Driver Seat, Alarm System, Remote Keyless Entry, Fog Lamps, Cab Clearance Lamps, HD Transfer Case, Bright White with a Gray Interior. Built 09-15-00, took delivery on 10-06-00, 6184 miles as of 02-10-01. Custom aluminum work body / flat bed. Coming soon: E-Brake and gauges.

 

[RobbyRam]

My next question is; If a detuned Auto trans 24valve is 215HP, but then has DD2's installed, wouldn't it get more of a HP/TQ increase than a 2001. 5 H. O. with their stock injectors? And, by the way: Where are the Dodge Tech's or Rep's that usually 'lurk' here, with their unbiased answers?

 

[MikeR]

Robby,
Generally,a 'normal' running automatic puts around 190hp to the rear wheels stock,but I know your truck had a low power problem,so unless you fix that problem,you won't get the gains of what a 'normal' truck does. With a proper running truck you should have more power than stock ETH truck.

arar,
The 275 injectors are called that because they are for an RV motor rated 275hp at the flywheel. The 240hp numbers we are quoting here are at the rear wheels,so in actuality,you could be making about 275hp at the flywheel. We just don't like to guess at the power we're making... we want to see what the rear wheels put out.
I have seen automatic trucks with a CPC put around 225hp to the ground,then with 275 injectors and a CPC put 280-285hp to the ground. A torque converter doesn't give you more power,it just keeps the power you already have from slipping.

Papa,
The only injectors that have "A" or "M" are Diesel Dynamic injectors. They give you A's or M's depending on what trans you have... "A"utomatic or "M"anual. Of course you can request either one. I have DDIIm's in my truck.

-Mike

 

[C1B1DIESEL]

Sorry for the delay been away.
Okay, Im no engineer, I have had a chance to look at Cummins uprate list on the computer they use to change calibration in trucks.
It showed 3 different ecms, and about 18 diferent calibrations, in the calibration it shows CPL #s,(control parts list) Injector #s and all the calibrations showed the same injector part #s. They said they only put in the calibration that matches the ecm part # and cpl #. these calibration usualy have a fix for some thing or another. As far as the ecm that cummins offers it is a new ecm and not a calibration change that i had mentioned before. that ecm is not listed in there uprate listing.
Not sure why issue 31 page 30 says they are different injectors.
And when you start adding hp enhancements you do not always get what you put in. (60+50 =110) but in realist terms it probably is 75-80 hp.
sorry for starting a debate here.

 

[ynot]

OK, here we go. ETC's have 15. 8 pistons and ETH's have 16. 3's. The difference is a raised crown, not the nozzle dish. The 275hp ISB also uses 16. 3's. The 275 RV injectors are from 275hp ISB's, which also have a different ECM (timing and fuel map). That's where the 275 comes from. The ETH injection pump is the biggest version Bosch makes for flow (tho it uses a different timing solenoid, I was told. Can't verify that one. No user servicable parts in the VP44). Manufacture date of 11/00 and above will have ceramic distributor rollers and a (supposedly) better isolated timing and fuel solenoid. 2001. 5's and above are all supposed to have 16. 3 pistons, and I would assume, injectors to match, so the "de-tune" would be in the ECM. As for different power gains, dyno numbers, etc. , all trucks will have different dyno numbers, sound, torque rise, throttle response, and so on, because no two components are exact. You can dyno 10 ETH's with consecutive serial numbers right off the show-room floor, and they will vary in HP, torque, sound, mileage, and everything else, more than you can imagine. The best ones have randomly better balanced engine components, and "cleaner" electronics. There's really no way of knowing, other than long term "PAR III" style dyno numbers, gauging fuel rates, HP, torque and torque rise, variable ambients, volumetric efficiency, and so on, and even that will change after initial break-in, use of different lubes, etc... T

 

[Bart Timothy]

The ETH VP44 may be the largest in term of flow on the books, but in real world BOMBing results there's now way it puts out as much fuel as the ETC VP44. This has been shown countless times.

I'd like to talk, first hand, to someone who's had both torn down and knows the exact differences. The Edge boys have talked to someone who has first hand knowledge (DD, I believe). It has something to do with a cam profile(??).

[This message has been edited by Bart Timothy (edited 02-26-2001). ]

 

[Papa Joe]

I'm in over my head here, but curiosity has me by the tail #ad

Seems to me (a long time ago)there was mention of injectors that had the letter 'A' or 'M' (in the part number?) to differentiate between the auto and manual.
Not stirring the pot, but I would like to get to the bottom of this. Thanx. Joe #ad


BTW - I think 275 injectors originated in the 275hp Cummins used in motorhome chassis, hence the name 'RV injectors'. I imagine the ECM is programmed differently as well.